Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Silkywhiskers]

In her book Kate similarly discredits Mrs Fenn,  the upstairs  neighbour

For some reason Kate completely ignores   ( in her book )   the very important point  that Mrs Fenn  said Madeleine   was crying for an hour and a quarter  one night ...  a claim that brought into question the  'checking regime'

Instead,  Kate  ( in her book  ) chooses to mock Mrs Fenn's  'plummy accent' and remarks upon her  inappropraite  response on being told  that Madeleine had been 'abducted'

I can't help but draw a comparison between  Kate's scathing dismissal of Mrs  Fenn and her mocking dismissal of the priest

It's as though anyone who poses any  'problem'  is automatically under attack

That's how it's appearing to me anyway

They've similarly maligned Amaral, all while launching punitive litigatons and vehemently protesting if anyone else so much as looks sideways at their behaviour.

Don't forget their own investigating agency was sent a "cease and desist" letter when they presented Smithman to Team McCann, who then proceeded to bury him and mislead all of us for the next 6 years.

[Brietta]

In her book Kate similarly discredits Mrs Fenn,  the upstairs  neighbour

For some reason Kate completely ignores   ( in her book )   the very important point  that Mrs Fenn  said Madeleine   was crying for an hour and a quarter  one night ...  a claim that brought into question the  'checking regime'

Instead,  Kate  ( in her book  ) chooses to mock Mrs Fenn's  'plummy accent' and remarks upon her  inappropraite  response on being told  that Madeleine had been 'abducted'

I can't help but draw a comparison between  Kate's scathing dismissal of Mrs  Fenn and her mocking dismissal of the priest

It's as though anyone who poses any  'problem'  is automatically under attack

That's how it's appearing to me anyway

Yet another forum myth.

In her statement in the files Mrs Fenn said she heard a child.
There were many families in the resort with children.  Indeed the files record that Jez Wilkins child was howling it's wee head off and could not be pacified on one occasion, and that is why he was prowling the streets with the child in the pram in a well publicised other occasion.

However, Mrs Fenn has rubbished the allegation that Madeleine had cried continually and is quoted by the Daily Mail as doing so ...

"Last night the McCanns got a boost when the police case appeared to be undermined by a pensioner who is potentially a key witness.
 
Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.
 
But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."
 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html

Apparently there was also a video in existence of Mrs Fenn saying exactly the same in an ITN news report ... I cannot provide a link to it ... but there are comments in existence from people who have viewed it.

[pathfinder73]

Yet another forum myth.

In her statement in the files Mrs Fenn said she heard a child.
There were many families in the resort with children.  Indeed the files record that Jez Wilkins child was howling it's wee head off and could not be pacified on one occasion, and that is why he was prowling the streets with the child in the pram in a well publicised other occasion.

However, Mrs Fenn has rubbished the allegation that Madeleine had cried continually and is quoted by the Daily Mail as doing so ...

"Last night the McCanns got a boost when the police case appeared to be undermined by a pensioner who is potentially a key witness.
 
Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.
 
But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."
 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html

Apparently there was also a video in existence of Mrs Fenn saying exactly the same in an ITN news report ... I cannot provide a link to it ... but there are comments in existence from people who have viewed it.

I've been though this before so I'm not doing it again. Pamela Fenn in her statement clearly thought it was Madeleine crying for her daddy.

"She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse."

"She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
 She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

[Brietta]

I've been though this before so I'm not doing it again. Pamela Fenn in her statement clearly thought it was Madeleine crying for her daddy.

"She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse."

"She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
 She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Yeah and that was the same statement where it is recorded ... 

When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event.
She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.

However earlier in the statement it is recorded that Mrs Fenn also said ~ On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Just a bit confusing and enough to make one wonder what is on the original DVD.
Either she saw a strange person, or she didn't, but IMO the one sentence contradicts the other in the same statement ... so what other anomalies might there be?

So you stick with your myth if it keeps you happy, I will go with the Daily Mail interview where it was stated ~
But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-

[Brietta]

Her statement is a myth   8-)(--) Stick with your Hitler paper 

That her statement is a fact is indisputable.

That her statement is contradictory, as I have pointed out is also indisputable.

According to the statement Mrs Fenn affirmed nothing unusual had happened around 5a.

According to her statement there was enough concern about a man looking into 5a for it to be reported to the police.

[Brietta]

She also counter signed the police statement. Did she counter sign the report in the Mail?

Well she is not on record for suing them which could have been expected had they printed anything she disapproved of ... unless you can provide a cite stating otherwise?

[pathfinder73]

Well she is not on record for suing them which could have been expected had they printed anything she disapproved of ... unless you can provide a cite stating otherwise?

Her statement is not contradictory. She didn't see anything unusual. Her niece saw that not her.

[Silkywhiskers]

The attempts to smear everyone BUT the McCanns are becoming increasingly desperate and obvious.

We don't NEED the (now deceased) Mrs Fenn.

The McCanns themselves told us Madeleine woke alone and cried.

Mrs Fenn said it was for over an hour.  I have no reason to dispute that, unlike some who are bending themselves to and fro to explain the TRUTH.

If I hear the word "myth" one more time....!  The only mythical thing about this mess is the actions and words of the Tapas, which remain unexamined after 7 years.  Well, they were unexamined....now Andy has popped up and told us Tannerman is the myth that has distracted everyone for 7 years. 

Everyone except those like Amaral and myself, who can smell lies at 50 paces.

[icabodcrane]

The attempts to smear everyone BUT the McCanns are becoming increasingly desperate and obvious.

We don't NEED the (now deceased) Mrs Fenn.

The McCanns themselves told us Madeleine woke alone and cried.

Mrs Fenn said it was for over an hour.  I have no reason to dispute that, unlike some who are bending themselves to and fro to explain the TRUTH.

If I hear the word "myth" one more time....!  The only mythical thing about this mess is the actions and words of the Tapas, which remain unexamined after 7 years.  Well, they were unexamined....now Andy has popped up and told us Tannerman is the myth that has distracted everyone for 7 years. 

Everyone except those like Amaral and myself, who can smell lies at 50 paces.

The only reason that the late Mrs Fenn is maligned is because of the stark reality  that if what she says is true,  then,  consequently,   what the McCanns say  can't be true  ...  either  the children were left alone and crying for over an hour,  or  they were not

The way I see it,  there is simply no logical reason for Mrs Fenn  to have told the police something that was not true

The McCanns,  however,  might be seen to have had a very  significant reason for being untruthful about the  length of the periods their children were left unattended     (  fear of neglect charges  )

It is not rational to disbelieve Mrs Fenn  (  who had no motive to lie  )   whilst   believing the McCanns  (  who did have a motive to lie  ) 

[Mr Moderator]

Yet another example as to why anything one reads in the media should be taken with a very large pinch of salt.  Even if the reporter had taken down every single word verbatim, there is no reason for Mrs Fenn to have told them what really happened.  The police statement however is another matter, I know which one I would put my money on.

[Brietta]

Her statement is not contradictory. She didn't see anything unusual. Her niece saw that not her.

Mrs Fenn stated that nothing unusual had happened around apartment 5a ... except for a man staring through the window.

Hmmm ???

If that was not an unusual occurence ... it would not have been reported to the police.

Mrs Fenn had suffered a home invasion, the intruder gaining entry via a window, and her neice was naturally concerned when she saw a suspicious person.
There is nothing in the statement to indicate Mrs Fenn did not see him too, that is your inference.

However it still makes Mrs Fenn's statement contradictory.
What a pity it was neither videod or audio recorded.

[pathfinder73]

Mrs Fenn stated that nothing unusual had happened around apartment 5a ... except for a man staring through the window.

Hmmm ???

If that was not an unusual occurence ... it would not have been reported to the police.

Mrs Fenn had suffered a home invasion, the intruder gaining entry via a window, and her neice was naturally concerned when she saw a suspicious person.
There is nothing in the statement to indicate Mrs Fenn did not see him too, that is your inference.

However it still makes Mrs Fenn's statement contradictory.
What a pity it was neither videod or audio recorded.

She didn't see that man 8-)(--) Her niece Carole told her about the man looking after Madeleine's disappearance  (see below) so Pamela Fenn is not being contradictory. She is telling the truth that she saw nothing herself unusual up to 3 May.

"We were all seated on the terrace and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards. It was at this point that I turned to my aunt and my husband and exclaimed 'That was really very strange', but they were talking and very involved in the conversation (inaudible). I became involved in the conversation and did not think anymore about the incident. We left when it was around 6h30, after having finished eating and doing other things, and on Friday we passed by car, continuing to look at properties and such. We did not visit any estate agents, and on Saturday we left. We got to the airport and heard people talking about a missing child. This did not yet bring anything back and we commented on the horror." (Carole Tranmer)

[Lace]

There is no confusion Sadie.  Every member of the tapas-7 stated in their statements that they exited their apartment via the front door. Their back door/patio door was snib locked from the inside.

Kate had to admit to Madeleine being distressed at having been left alone since she had mentioned it to one of the others.  Since Mrs Fenn was out on the evening of 2nd May we can deduce that the crying incident occurred on Tuesday 1st May.  I wonder if the reason Mrs Fenn went out on the Wednesday night was to get away from a possible repeat of the previous nights crying?   Crying which was so bad that Mrs Fenn had to seek advice from her friend by telephone as to whether she should interfere and call reception.   Little wonder therefore that Mrs Fenn was somewhat short wth Kate McCann on the Thursday night when she was dsturbed yet again by the family below.  I am quite sure she must have thought to herself - here we go again!

Leaving three young children alone in a ground floor holiday apartment with an unlocked door on one occasion could be classed as stupid but to do so every night was borderline idiocy.

One of the McCann's friends was looking after his sick daughter,   he could have gone out onto the balcony for a read or just to sit and maybe fallen asleep.

The child was calling Daddy,  to me I would immediately think that it was just the father there,  he could then have gone inside  [Mrs. Fenn hearing him shut his patio door]

[pathfinder73]

One of the McCann's friends was looking after his sick daughter,   he could have gone out onto the balcony for a read or just to sit and maybe fallen asleep.

The child was calling Daddy,  to me I would immediately think that it was just the father there,  he could then have gone inside  [Mrs. Fenn hearing him shut his patio door]

Rachel Oldfield stayed in on Wed 2nd and heard no crying next door but Kate claimed at the table on the night her daughter disappeared that Madeleine said why didn't you come when me and Sean were crying last night? If that happened god knows how Rachel didn't hear it i.e. her bedroom being next door to the kids room.

"I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didn’t hear any, well you know, I didn’t hear anything." (RO)

Madeleine crying for her daddy doesn't mean he's there but Kate using her mobile many times before Pamela 'plummy voice' Fenn reported the crying to have commenced at 10:30 is interesting  >@@(*&)

"At around 8.45pm on Tuesday 1st May 2007, Miss Nejoua Chekeya, the Ocean Clubs busty Aerobics Instructor, held a 'Quiz Night' and was later invited, allegedly by Gerald McCann, to join his table which she did sometime between 9.30pm and 9.50pm. She did not say how long she had remained with them, but she is not the sort of woman men would wish see to leave too quickly. Miss Chekeya stated that one dinner setting was unused and that she could not remember seeing Kate McCann."

"Kate McCanns mobile was next activated six times, in rapid fire, between 22.16 and 22.27, after she had returned to Apartment 5A after dinner. The antenna traffic proves that these calls were not made to any of the 'Tapas 9'."

[Brietta]

She didn't see that man 8-)(--) She saw nothing unusual up to 3 May. Her niece told her about the man looking after Madeleine's disappearance  (see below) so Pamela Fenn is not being contradictory. She is telling the truth that she saw nothing herself unusual.

"We were all seated on the terrace and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards. It was at this point that I turned to my aunt and my husband and exclaimed 'That was really very strange', but they were talking and very involved in the conversation (inaudible). I became involved in the conversation and did not think anymore about the incident. We left when it was around 6h30, after having finished eating and doing other things, and on Friday we passed by car, continuing to look at properties and such. We did not visit any estate agents, and on Saturday we left. We got to the airport and heard people talking about a missing child. This did not yet bring anything back and we commented on the horror." (Carole Tranmer)

I have stated what was recorded in Mrs Fenn's statement as recorded in the PJ files which are published online.

IMO there are two contradictions within that statement.

It should also be noted that the statement records ~
On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Was that actually the date when her niece visited?

If you read further from the statement made in Britain after a bit of forensic questioning ~ Mrs Tranmer realised she was mistaken in the date given and recorded by Mrs Fenn in her statement.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROL_TRANMER.htm