Madeleine McCann...burglars don't steal children but do they??

[Sherlock Holmes]

Does anyone agree that the flat looked like everyone was out?

Depends on who was looking at it.

To an opportunistic cat burglar, it may have looked dark and quiet.

To a potential 'abductor' who had been monitoring the movements of the McCanns for several days, the question is immaterial.

[icabodcrane]

Depends on who was looking at it.

To an opportunistic cat burglar, it may have looked dark and quiet.

To a potential 'abductor' who had been monitoring the movements of the McCanns for several days, the question is immaterial.

'Cat burglar'  ? 

You make it sound like some Cary Grant type was prowling the area in search of  jewels

If there were  burglars in the  resort that night  (  and that  is entirely speculative,  even on the part of Scotland Yard )  then they would have been  petty thieves,  looking for a bit of easily disposed of tat

They  wouldn't take a three year old out with them on the spur of the moment 

They just wouldn't

[Sherlock Holmes]

Have you a credible source for that, SH ?

DCI Redwood

[Sherlock Holmes]

'Cat burglar'  ? 

You make it sound like some Cary Grant type was prowling the area in search of  jewels

If there were  burglars in the  resort that night  (  and that  is entirely speculative,  even on the part of Scotland Yard )  then they would have been  petty thieves,  looking for a bit of easily disposed of tat

They  wouldn't take a three year old out with them on the spur of the moment 

They just wouldn't

I agree. I just wrote on another thread earlier today (Latest News) that the phrase 'burglary gone wrong' is misleading.

The point above was in reference to the idea of the apartment looking empty. An abductor who had been spying on the McCanns for a time - or even only on the night itself - would know exactly its status. So whether it 'looked' occupied or not would be irrelevant.

[Mr Moderator]

'Cat burglar'  ? 

You make it sound like some Cary Grant type was prowling the area in search of  jewels

If there were  burglars in the  resort that night  (  and that  is entirely speculative,  even on the part of Scotland Yard )  then they would have been  petty thieves,  looking for a bit of easily disposed of tat

They  wouldn't take a three year old out with them on the spur of the moment 

They just wouldn't

I found that article by Mark Williams-Thomas yesterday most interesting and especially since it originated with AP in London then publshed via The Sydney Morning Herald in Australia.   Did anyone see it in a UK paper?

[colombosstogey]

I found that article by Mark Williams-Thomas yesterday most interesting and especially since it originated with AP in London then publshed via The Sydney Morning Herald in Australia.   Did anyone see it in a UK paper?

MWT, is a turn coat.

I remember at the beginning of the McCann story he was on the settee on a day time chat show talking about the case. HE made IT QUITE CLEAR, that the chances of abduction by strangers was very RARE, and it was about 85% for parents, friends, friends of friends etc. I remember him well.

Then not long afterwards he changed completely............like the averages/percentages had never been in existance....

[colombosstogey]

To be honest Red, between all the reports there were huge numbers of cases cited, covering all different types of crimes. Nothing about abduction jumped out; it would indeed be a rarity for a burglar to abduct.

Nonetheless, the central point remains that criminals are flexible, however odd it may sound. We have been channelled into thinking about crime in a certain way, in response to statistics as they used to appear -with everything compartmentalised. It seems that that is not the reality, something which is in keeping with what psychology says about  personality in general, namely that people don't compartmentalise. A person who is angry and unpleasant to one person is capable of being angry to another person and probably to everyone, because these problems are lying within the person himself - not, however much he or others may wish to interpret the situation, with the people who are the targets of his anger. Those people are merely the occasion.

As far as all this pertains to Madeleine, it may well have been that those burglars around in PdL before that night were involved in a group of criminals who were engaged, seperately and together, in all different types of crime, and that Madeleine somehow became the victim of an unfortunate cocktail of persons and events.

The trouble for me is the scenario. This is PDL and the surroundings. The crime rate is LOW. It doesnt smack of secret lair run by Fagan......does it.  You've Got to Pick a Pocket or Two................................

Not like in St Lucia, or even some African countries if your asked for your valuables you give them or they KILL you.

PDL is a quiet town especially end of April. Hardly a haven for crime lords.

Now as to perception of criminals etc.

Its a known fact that some are CHANCERS or drugged up to the eyeballs. They go into a house to rob, find a lone female and rape and take valuables. They would rarely go into a house/apartment to rob, find 3 young children alone and rape them, take valuables and then take a body. IT makes no sense. IF it makes no sense then I believe its because there isnt any.

ALTHOUGH to be fair this scenario would be sooooo RARE, that there wouldnt be much written about it if any.....

So could it have happened........................I suppose without the research then we cant say 100percent. BUT sensibility tells us its hardly likely.

 

[AnneGuedes]

MWT, is a turn coat.

I remember at the beginning of the McCann story he was on the settee on a day time chat show talking about the case. HE made IT QUITE CLEAR, that the chances of abduction by strangers was very RARE, and it was about 85% for parents, friends, friends of friends etc. I remember him well.

Then not long afterwards he changed completely............like the averages/percentages had never been in existance....

Yes, that was strange..

[AnneGuedes]

The trouble for me is the scenario. This is PDL and the surroundings. The crime rate is LOW. It doesnt smack of secret lair run by Fagan......does it.  You've Got to Pick a Pocket or Two................................

Not like in St Lucia, or even some African countries if your asked for your valuables you give them or they KILL you.

PDL is a quiet town especially end of April. Hardly a haven for crime lords.

Now as to perception of criminals etc.

Its a known fact that some are CHANCERS or drugged up to the eyeballs. They go into a house to rob, find a lone female and rape and take valuables. They would rarely go into a house/apartment to rob, find 3 young children alone and rape them, take valuables and then take a body. IT makes no sense. IF it makes no sense then I believe its because there isnt any.

ALTHOUGH to be fair this scenario would be sooooo RARE, that there wouldnt be much written about it if any.....

So could it have happened........................I suppose without the research then we cant say 100percent. BUT sensibility tells us its hardly likely.

Sound is curiously neglected, though it doesn't seem possible to break-in, rape/kill a kid and take the body away, walking, in total darkness and silence.

[Eleanor]

Sound is curiously neglected, though it doesn't seem possible to break-in, rape/kill a kid and take the body away, walking, in total darkness and silence.

Who said anything about Raping a child?

[Angelo222]

Mark Williams-Thomas is right, it would be extremely rare for a burglar to abduct a child.  That's not to say it couldn't have happened, just that it was unlikely.

[Eleanor]

Mark Williams-Thomas is right, it would be extremely rare for a burglar to abduct a child.  That's not to say it couldn't have happened, just that it was unlikely.

Unlikely?  But possible.  More statistics, eh what.

But I suppose we could agree that burglars are quite good at breaking in and removing things that will fetch money.
How moral does a burglar have to be to stop short of a child?  And what were they doing there anyway? 

No reported incidents of stolen goods that night when these burglars won't have known that a child was being abducted.
So what were they up to?

Oh, I know.  Just having a bit of a jolly get together.

[Lyall]

Unlikely?  But possible.  More statistics, eh what.

But I suppose we could agree that burglars are quite good at breaking in and removing things that will fetch money.
How moral does a burglar have to be to stop short of a child?  And what were they doing there anyway? 

No reported incidents of stolen goods that night when these burglars won't have known that a child was being abducted.
So what were they up to?

Oh, I know.  Just having a bit of a jolly get together.

Do we know the times of any phone calls they made that night/overnight?

[Lyall]

Anything more than was said in the papers I mean (and I know you have always said not to believe what they say).

Is the man unfortunately killed by a tractor one of these men?

Is Heriberto's man one of these men?

[Eleanor]

Anything more than was said in the papers I mean (and I know you have always said not to believe what they say).

Is the man unfortunately killed by a tractor one of these men?

Is Heriberto's man one of these men?

This thought occurred to me, and I think you will find that I have already asked this question.

We know that he was a convicted burglar, and a drug addict.  And he was in Praia de Luz that night when he didn't actually live there. 
So what was he up to when there are no reports of ordinary burglaries?

It must have been a burglar's night out, I guess.  Not.