Former staff at Ocean Club now being investigated over burglary claims.

[sadie]

Not having this Sherlock

You are a small step away from the oft repeated,  "We all do it"  ...  slightly altered to,  "We are all capable of doing it"   

Not so  ...  not by a long chalk

People dont do it these days Icabod.  Not since Madeleine.    ... but it was very common on caravan and camping sites for parents to be a good distance away chatting over a camp fire, a drink,  with other parents.

Also normal at Butlins and Pontins .... and not uncommon in hotels

[Sherlock Holmes]

SH the others took rudimentary precautions ie locked both their front and back doors so the kids couldnt get out..not the same as the mccanns who left  their back door open and cant remember if they locked the front one or not!!
Unbelievable!
Nite now

Yes, that part is interesting. They did do it slightly differently.

[sadie]

Yes, that part is interesting. They did do it slightly differently.

Yep, they all backed on to an unlit alleyway, so they thought it necessary to lock their back doors. it seems.  The Mccanns back patio was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately across the road lighting the whole patio area.

At least I think the alleyway was unlit.  Please correct me if I am remembering this wrongly.

[Redblossom]

Yes, that part is interesting. They did do it slightly differently.

No it wasnt "slightly" differently it was "alot" differently, ie  they "secured" their apartments, from entry or exit by kids or anyone else, not left  open for any tom dick or harry to enter, or the kids to wonder out of, oh never mind lol, gone >>>>>

And i dont remember any of the tapas group telling people willy nilly they left their kids alone!!!

[sadie]

Yep, they all backed on to an unlit alleyway, so they thought it necessary to lock their back doors. it seems.  The Mccanns back patio was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately across the road lighting the whole patio area.

At least I think the alleyway was unlit.  Please correct me if I am remembering this wrongly.

And here Red, you have the probable reason.

Yep, they all backed on to an unlit alleyway, so they thought it necessary to lock their back doors. it seems.  The Mccanns back patio was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately across the road lighting the whole patio area.

At least I think the alleyway was unlit.  Please correct me if I am remembering this wrongly.

Apart from the need for security, with IIRC no lamps to light their back way in, they wouldn't want to use that route from choice.


Additionally, the farther west the apartments is , the less the differences between front route and vback route.  THe Mccanns was the longest front route with all that walled opathway to walk and the shortest back route.   Additionally all the other front doors opened from a well lit lobby.  The Mccanns was a dark bogey hole of a front entrance.


Because the front door to 5A was so black and such a nasty place after dark, that would have been a strong persuader instead to use the patio door, which was well lit.  And that is apart from the very different distances walked for them, to the others.

[Redblossom]

Just had to relog in to say what a bunch of  incorrect  fatastical and  pathetic baloney

Bye now

[VIXTE]

Sorry.. I am too sleepy to quote but just want to say something re question 'why / how would Madeleine recognise someone'

Madeleine did not even have to recognise someone.. it would be enough if it was in their head that she did /could recognise them.. it would be enough for them to be paranoid when in a stressful state of mind and they would remove her..

Not everyone thinks the same and I have no clue how burglars or criminals think but if they've ever been to prison they'd do everything to not to get to back to prison.. IMO

[icabodcrane]

People dont do it these days Icabod.  Not since Madeleine.    ... but it was very common on caravan and camping sites for parents to be a good distance away chatting over a camp fire, a drink,  with other parents.

Also normal at Butlins and Pontins .... and not uncommon in hotels

I am  'people'  sadie  ...   and the fact that I never have  ...  and never  would  leave my children alone and vulnernable,  has nothing to do with Madeleine McCann

[Redblossom]

Sorry.. I am too sleepy to quote but just want to say something re question 'why / how would Madeleine recognise someone'

Madeleine did not even have to recognise someone.. it would be enough if it was in their head that she did /could recognise them.. it would be enough for them to be paranoid when in a stressful state of mind and they would remove her..

Not everyone thinks the same and I have no clue how burglars or criminals think but if they've ever been to prison they'd do everything to not to get to back to prison.. IMO

Jesus h christ!!

Hows the mills and boon contract going vixte? Lol
>>>>>>>>>>>>

[colombosstogey]

It's very funny what you're saying, columbo, (and redblossom), but the fact is that a crime of gross proportions did occur that night in Praia da Luz - whatever exactly that crime ( or crimes ) may have been.

A number of crimes also took in the resort prior to that night. They may or may not be connected with Madeleine's disappearance, but they happened.

I would suspect that in any given place there is probably a great deal of petty crime - and worse - going on at any one time, it's just that we're not focusing on it. We only focus on what impacts us directly or what is covered by the media. Out of sight out of mind.

We know for a fact that security and various other kinds of protocols at the OC were exceptionally lax, and it is likely that this situation has been exploited by employees and others.

LOOK put it into context.

PRIOR to the McCanns holiday PDL was thought of as a quiet place, a SAFE PLACE. Actually there is a forum of PDL citizens you can chat with who will tell you that.

Yes no matter where you go you will get some PETTY THEFT, its normal, and who is to say its the locals doing it?

ITS always odd to me, in the holiday season its higher, but afterwards its quieter. Yes less pickings, but how many thieving are not actually holiday makers themselves adding some dosh to their spending kitty. (I do know this happens as someone was caught in Greece and it was a holiday maker).

There was ONE burglary before the McCanns arrived. The other Mrs Fenn mentioned, but it cant be corroborated as she is deceased and weirdly enough her neice was in the area at the time and instead of staying with her aunt who had, allegedgely had an attempted robbery she stayed in a hotel about an hour away, so I am a bit sceptical about this as if it was my AUNT I would have stayed with her.

ITS not just the petty thieving its all the other things that PDL is now renowned for. Its getting out of hand.

Now with this knew news I can expect less people will want to stay there. Livelihoods are at stake here. Private apartments wont be rented out, people will loose money, all because of someones initial NEGLIGENCE.

IT NEEDS to stop NOW. The media needs to shut up and let the police do their job.

I find the whole thing now quite farcical, like a bloody carry on film lol......

ITS A JOKE, a big fat joke, and we have forgotten that sadly there was a young girl involved in the beginning.

[colombosstogey]

Ok, you're not considering that your child will be nicked out of your apartment, far enough, but are you seriously saying that your go leave your child in an unlocked apartment, next to a swimming pool, out of earshot?

Forget crime and spend a moment thinking about your child waking up and being frightened in a strange environment and shouting for you. And you can't hear!

That's right, They're there all on their own, they're frightened and you can't hear your child crying or calling for you.

Are you still going to go out for dinner now?

That's why we (parents) don't just leave our kids alone. It's not just thoughts of fire and choking and the tiny possibility that they make get snatched by a smack addicted burglar cum tractor driver. It's the thought of the distress that would be caused to them by our absence.

  EXCELLENT, exactly....AND what really gets me running for the RENNIES is the fact ALTHOUGH they KNEW THE CHILD WAS DISTRESSED she told her mother so one morning, they took the DECISION TO DO IT TWICE AGAIN..................OH MY FISHING GOD....ARE YOU SERIOUS..............................

This is why i get sooooo mad about them......I cant forgive them for that.

Those poor kids sobbing in the dark for over an hour for mummy and daddy who never came for what must have seemed FOREVER. IF the child had not been taken, the harm that would have done to her is unthinkable.

I expect she would have never slept again, without going to her parents bed because she had separation and abandonment issues.........GIVE ME A BREAK.

I have about 10 grand children and so many great grandchildren, and if I found ONE OF FAMILY leaving their children this way, they would have their bl&&dy ears boxed...I can tell you.

IF YOU WANT TO GO OUT, make sure you have BABYSITTING in place. IF NOT bl^^dy well stay in. SIMPLE.

[Benice]

It really riles me that people claim they were within the realms of responsible parenting because they felt safe! It completely negates the children's right to feel safe. If any of those children woke up (and we've been told that Madeleine did at least once) then they are going to have felt very unsafe indeed.

No matter how secure I've felt in any environment, I've never forgotten that I'm a Mum.

Before I'm accused of portraying myself as a 'perfect parent' I've made many mistakes, but they were honest ones. They were the kind of trial and error mistakes that every parent makes, cause none of us are perfect.

Forgetting that your child may wake up in a strange place all alone and frightened is so far outside my idea of a 'mistake' that it's incomprehensible.

Anyway, I have the school run in the morning so I need my bed.

Nos da pawb

If every parent thought the same as you do Cariad -  then the  Baby Listening Service would never have taken off in the first place.   The reason it was offered and has been going for decades is  because there was a demand for it. 

What riles me is the idea constantly pushed that the McCanns are the only parents ever to have left their children asleep with regular checks being made while they went for their evening meal.   

And the idea that no other parent has ever gone out and forgotten to lock doors or windows - or even deliberately left doors open for some reason is quite frankly preposterous imo.

What I find shocking is that even after what happened to Madeleine, parents  STILL signed up for the Listening Service offered in holiday resorts.   IMO they deserve far more criticism than the McCanns have received.     Although no doubt part of their thinking is  that 'stuff like this only happens to other people' - completely forgetting that to everyone else on the planet WE ARE those 'other' people'.    It's competely irrational, but it's a common misconception, which is why we hear people say.. 'I never thought this could happen to me'.

I have no problem at all in understanding how the McCanns could be lulled into a false sense of security - mainly because I see them as normal human beings just as capable of getting things wrong as the rest of us.

[Benice]

EXCELLENT, exactly....AND what really gets me running for the RENNIES is the fact ALTHOUGH they KNEW THE CHILD WAS DISTRESSED she told her mother so one morning, they took the DECISION TO DO IT TWICE AGAIN..................OH MY FISHING GOD....ARE YOU SERIOUS..............................

This is why i get sooooo mad about them......I cant forgive them for that.

Those poor kids sobbing in the dark for over an hour for mummy and daddy who never came for what must have seemed FOREVER. IF the child had not been taken, the harm that would have done to her is unthinkable.

I expect she would have never slept again, without going to her parents bed because she had separation and abandonment issues.........GIVE ME A BREAK.

I have about 10 grand children and so many great grandchildren, and if I found ONE OF FAMILY leaving their children this way, they would have their bl&&dy ears boxed...I can tell you.

IF YOU WANT TO GO OUT, make sure you have BABYSITTING in place. IF NOT bl^^dy well stay in. SIMPLE.

The whole point is that Madeliene was NOT distressed when she spoke to them.  She made one little comment and then moved off to play elsewhere.    She did not mention anything to the creche staff during the day and when she went to bed on that same evening - she didn't mention it to her parents then either.    One would think the very act of going to bed would have reminded her of what had happened the night before.  If it had been as traumatic as you seem to believe.

Mrs Fenn heard ONE child crying -  not two children sobbing for over an hour on Tues night . So that could not have been Madeleine and Sean.     On Wednesday night Racheal was next door and so would have heard two children sobbing for over an hour - so if could not have been that night.    It was on Thurs morning that Madeleine made her comment to her mum and dad. 

The fact is that what Madeleine was referring to is simply not known.  IMO

[Wonderfulspam]

The whole point is that Madeliene was NOT distressed when she spoke to them.  She made one little comment and then moved off to play elsewhere.    She did not mention anything to the creche staff during the day and when she went to bed on that same evening - she didn't mention it to her parents then either.    One would think the very act of going to bed would have reminded her of what had happened the night before.  If it had been as traumatic as you seem to believe.

Mrs Fenn heard ONE child crying -  not two children sobbing for over an hour on Tues night . So that could not have been Madeleine and Sean.     On Wednesday night Racheal was next door and so would have heard two children sobbing for over an hour - so if could not have been that night.    It was on Thurs morning that Madeleine made her comment to her mum and dad. 

The fact is that what Madeleine was referring to is simply not known.  IMO

Maddie was definitely crying on the night of May 2nd, we know this because a middle-aged couple went into the apartment & comforted her.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3297.0

[slartibartfast]

Although Mark Warner offered a listening service at its other complexes – where a nanny tours the rooms every half an hour and listens for crying children – they have never offered it at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz.

Telegraph.