Author Topic: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?  (Read 188094 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #435 on: February 16, 2014, 07:37:33 PM »
You are so  very wrong Benice and promulgating the myth Eddie and Keela are sent in to detect blood only! God, heard it all now

That is not what I said at all.   There is no way Grime could make Eddie only alert to blood and not  to cadaverscent once the dog had been trained to alert to both.      All Eddie had learned was that if he barked when he detected certain SMELLS he pleased his owner and got a reward.   And that would be the limit of his understanding IMO.




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #436 on: February 17, 2014, 12:13:59 AM »
That is not what I said at all.   There is no way Grime could make Eddie only alert to blood and not  to cadaverscent once the dog had been trained to alert to both.      All Eddie had learned was that if he barked when he detected certain SMELLS he pleased his owner and got a reward.   And that would be the limit of his understanding IMO.


Tell that to Adrian Prout. Eddie was no amateur!

'The Perfect Murder'
"Documentary examining how the threat of divorce forced a husband to kill his wife to save his farm. Although now behind bars, Adrian Prout still hasn't revealed where his dead wife lies." 60mins

Prout, who had a successful pipe laying business, formally reported his wife missing on November 10, 2007, telling officers she had vanished from their home. Eddie went about the house, and indicated a death smell between the couch and the window in one room. There was never any forensic evidence, no evidence of a crime scene being washed away, and no body. The police assumed she was dead, and a conviction was obtained, because Eddie did what he was trained to do. The police decided that they were looking for a dead person because all the evidence pointed to that. Officers charged him with her murder in March 2008. The case was taken to trial at Bristol Crown Court despite the lack of a corpse and a jury convicted Prout of murder by a 10-1 majority following a three week trial in February 2010 .  November 2011, Adrian Prout has admitted to those detectives that he murdered Kate Prout – something which he had always denied – and has now suggested that he disposed of her body on Redhill Farm, in Redmarley. He has agreed to visit the farm to point out the exact location."
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #437 on: February 17, 2014, 12:19:24 AM »

The body of Prout's wife was never in the living room.  The dog failed to react to where the body did lay for a short time, and failed to react to where the body was buried.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #438 on: February 17, 2014, 12:34:41 AM »
Eddie alerted to cadaver scent which he is what he is trained to do. Who else got killed? And who finally confessed to her murder after many denials. Kate's cadaver scent had to be transferred to the living room.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #439 on: February 17, 2014, 12:45:07 AM »
Eddie alerted to cadaver scent which he is what he is trained to do. Who else got killed? And who finally confessed to her murder after many denials. Kate's cadaver scent had to be transferred to the living room.

Yer well, any old explanation will do.  How come Eddie didn't react to the back of the truck in which the body was driven?  And how come Eddie didn't find the grave which was on the same farm land?
Oh, and not buried under concrete, by the way.

Why did he confess?  Well he did fail a polygraph, and he was already banged up.  And no doubt a confession and contrition will get him out sooner.
Meanwhile, Eddie reacted to entirely the wrong place while missing all of the right places.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #440 on: February 17, 2014, 01:09:00 AM »
Don't worry Eleanor because unfortunately Eddie found cadaver scent. Smithman was last seen with Madeleine and  anyone involved would suppress any efits of that man. The time of death will be connected to the cadaver clothes. You will just have to be patient - Truth will out!
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Benice

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #441 on: February 17, 2014, 01:17:22 AM »
Tell that to Adrian Prout. Eddie was no amateur!

'The Perfect Murder'
"Documentary examining how the threat of divorce forced a husband to kill his wife to save his farm. Although now behind bars, Adrian Prout still hasn't revealed where his dead wife lies." 60mins

Prout, who had a successful pipe laying business, formally reported his wife missing on November 10, 2007, telling officers she had vanished from their home. Eddie went about the house, and indicated a death smell between the couch and the window in one room. There was never any forensic evidence, no evidence of a crime scene being washed away, and no body. The police assumed she was dead, and a conviction was obtained, because Eddie did what he was trained to do. The police decided that they were looking for a dead person because all the evidence pointed to that. Officers charged him with her murder in March 2008. The case was taken to trial at Bristol Crown Court despite the lack of a corpse and a jury convicted Prout of murder by a 10-1 majority following a three week trial in February 2010 .  November 2011, Adrian Prout has admitted to those detectives that he murdered Kate Prout – something which he had always denied – and has now suggested that he disposed of her body on Redhill Farm, in Redmarley. He has agreed to visit the farm to point out the exact location."

I have no idea what any of that has got to do with my post saying that Eddie was only concerned with seeking out odours that he had been trained to track down.  He was trained to alert to cadaverscent and BLOOD.  Blood could be from a dead or living body - Eddie could not differentiate between the two.   

My point was that there is no way his handler could send him in to search for one odour with instructions to ignore the other.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #442 on: February 17, 2014, 01:20:19 AM »
There was no blood found at the wardrobe. Keela is the blood dog and she has to get very close with her nose to alert to blood. Eddie picked up cadaver scent straight away as soon as he entered 5A. This was commented on by Grime as soon as the dog got there.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 01:22:15 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #443 on: February 17, 2014, 01:20:43 AM »
Don't worry Eleanor because unfortunately Eddie found cadaver scent. Smithman was last seen with Madeleine and  anyone involved would suppress any efits of that man. The time of death will be connected to the cadaver clothes. You will just have to be patient - Truth will out!

Connected to Cadaver Clothes?  What on earth are you talking about?  The Abductor's Lawyer would make minced meat out of that.

Offline pegasus

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #444 on: February 17, 2014, 01:32:56 AM »
@pathfinder IMO both yourself and Mr Amaral are incorrectly assuming strictly that the clothes came into contact with something while the clothes' owner WAS wearing them.
Have you considered the alternative which is that the clothes came into contact with something while the clothes were in a wardrobe and the clothes owner WAS NOT wearing them?
In that very possible scenario the clothes owner is likely to be completely innocent IMO.

Offline Benice

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #445 on: February 17, 2014, 01:34:56 AM »
There was no blood found at the wardrobe. Keela is the blood dog and she has to get very close with her nose to alert to blood. Eddie picked up cadaver scent straight away as soon as he entered 5A. This was commented on by Grime as soon as the dog got there.

Grime also said that because the dog had alerted at that spot did not mean it was the original source - because the odour can drift.   
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pegasus

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #446 on: February 17, 2014, 02:50:23 AM »
IMO possibly the greatest error of logic in the book, is the implied assumption that the clothing items were being worn while those items contacted the source.


Offline Eleanor

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #447 on: February 17, 2014, 02:55:38 AM »
IMO possibly the greatest error of logic in the book, is the implied assumption that the clothing items were being worn while those items contacted the source.

And if you consider the way in which they were transported and then laid out in two different places, you might be forgiven for thinking that any Court might fall about laughing.

Offline pegasus

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #448 on: February 17, 2014, 03:50:52 AM »
But the point is, that even if the signals of the two adult clothing items by Eddie are 100% correct, those signals IN NO WAY incriminate the individual owner of those clothes.
If some other person (without your knowledge) temporarily hid some crystal meth under a pile of your clothes, and a dog just like Eddie but trained for drugs later correctly signalled crystal meth on those clothes of yours, would that incriminate you?  NO.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 03:54:19 AM by pegasus »

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was Gonçalo Amaral fair game given the content of his book?
« Reply #449 on: February 17, 2014, 03:58:26 AM »
But the point is, that even if the signals of the two adult clothing items by Eddie are 100% correct, those signals IN NO WAY incriminate the individual owner of those clothes.
If some other person (without your knowledge) temporarily hid some crystal meth under a pile of your clothes, and a dog just like Eddie but trained for drugs later correctly signalled crystal meth on those clothes of yours, would that incriminate you?  NO.

I think it might be a bit more basic than that.  But no one, not even Martin Grime knows what was alerted to.  Too many variables.  And never any forensics.