Poll

Did leaving three very young children alone constitute responsible parenting?

Yes, reasonable and adequate checks were put in place.
7 (20%)
No, young children should never be left on their own.
27 (77.1%)
Undecided.
1 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: February 14, 2014, 11:51:39 AM

Author Topic: Did leaving three very young children alone constitute responsible parenting?  (Read 48134 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr Gray

British families have been doing this for years with absolutely no problems....babylistening is still alive and well in hotels...certainly after Maddie being the victim of an abduction the practice has probably all but stopped..who knows....

it was once thought ok to have open access to maternity wards..no one was saying ..this isn't safe...until babies were abducted...now maternity wards are like fort knox...times change....I still wouldn't criticise the Mccanns...they thought it was safe...and it used to be safe

Offline Benice

 

It would get them (the clients) off further action.  It is done all the time as reports in the papers show.   Child Protection Officers are, by definition, paid to represent the interests of the child(ren)  Everyone I have spoken to who has worked / works in Children's Social Services (plus some family lawyers) were / are appalled at what happened and the sympathy is always with Madeleine and the twins

Well you obviously move in different circles to me.    I've never found anyone who didn't have the utmost sympathy for the parents.

I simply don't believe as you claim that Barristers would deliberately lie to their own clients and mislead them about the law.  They would not be barristers for long if they did that.     No client pays to be lied to.




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Redblossom

  • Guest
Well you obviously move in different circles to me.    I've never found anyone who didn't have the utmost sympathy for the parents.

I simply don't believe as you claim that Barristers would deliberately lie to their own clients and mislead them about the law.  They would not be barristers for long if they did that.     No client pays to be lied to.

They dont lie to their clients necessarily,they reassure them, they argue around laws, thats all, its all within the remit of "defence"

Eta sorry CPN didnt see your reply of earlier

Offline Benice

We simply have a difference of opinion here, Eleanor.   You find this discussion rubbish; I find the rest of your post rubbish.  I base my opinion on many, many years working with children, both in the UK and internationally, including having three sister in care who were removed from their parents under very similar circumstances.  I do not know what you base your opinion on. 

You are probably right that the McCanns will never be charged with any offence concerning their child care arrangements;  that does not mean that no action has been taken, again as I have pointed out many times.  On that point, again, I speak from experience

Unless you can provide proof that any action has been taken against the McCanns  - (and of course all their friends who did the same childchecking  - and so are no different)    - then I think it's wrong of you to even suggest that it may have happened.








The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

CPN

  • Guest
Well you obviously move in different circles to me.    I've never found anyone who didn't have the utmost sympathy for the parents.

I simply don't believe as you claim that Barristers would deliberately lie to their own clients and mislead them about the law.  They would not be barristers for long if they did that.     No client pays to be lied to.

I think you misunderstand, Benice. Barristers / lawyers are paid to represent their client, as I said, and to put the client's point of view in the best possible way.  Many barristers are moaned at because they represent people in ways in which others cannot understand or think are appalling in appalling cases - you hardly need me to name some of the things I mean, but let's just say Daniel Pelka - his mother was represented; the mother of Mikaeel Kular will be represented etc etc  These people still have to have a defence barrister who puts the situation to the best advantage of his client, and that is what the barrister is paid to do.  His / her client is the centre of the defence; for a Children's Social Worker, the child is at the centre.

Re the views of others; eg I was away this Christmas with my son and daughter-in-law.  Purely by chance we started talking to the manager of the place we were in; it turned out she used to be a family lawyer before taking on this job.  This led to discussions with her about the McCann case - and she said, quite out of the blue, that all the lawyers in her office were shocked at the whole situation and felt as we both did - I did not ask her to say that, she simply said it.

Offline Mr Gray

They dont lie to their clients necessarily,they reassure them, they argue around laws, thats all, its all within the remit of "defence"

Eta sorry CPN didnt see your reply of earlier

So today CPN criticises parents..doctors ..barristers but has been strangely silent on the social workers who let down Mikael in Scotland..

Offline Mr Gray

I think you misunderstand, Benice. Barristers / lawyers are paid to represent their client, as I said, and to put the client's point of view in the best possible way.  Many barristers are moaned at because they represent people in ways in which others cannot understand or think are appalling in appalling cases - you hardly need me to name some of the things I mean, but let's just say Daniel Pelka - his mother was represented; the mother of Mikaeel Kular will be represented etc etc  These people still have to have a defence barrister who puts the situation to the best advantage of his client, and that is what the barrister is paid to do.  His / her client is the centre of the defence; for a Children's Social Worker, the child is at the centre.

Re the views of others; eg I was away this Christmas with my son and daughter-in-law.  Purely by chance we started talking to the manager of the place we were in; it turned out she used to be a family lawyer before taking on this job.  This led to discussions with her about the McCann case - and she said, quite out of the blue, that all the lawyers in her office were shocked at the whole situation and felt as we both did - I did not ask her to say that, she simply said it.

Why is it that everyone I meet has nothing but sympathy for the Mccanns...very odd

CPN

  • Guest
Unless you can provide proof that any action has been taken against the McCanns  - (and of course all their friends who did the same childchecking  - and so are no different)    - then I think it's wrong of you to even suggest that it may have happened.

Benice - we cannot have evidence for the same reason as I have said time and again - the work of Social Services is confidential.  However I do know what goes on in a SSD and how situations can be approached and the other ways in which these situations can be dealt with if prosecution is not thought to be appropriate.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 06:41:39 PM by CPN »

Offline jassi

Why is it that everyone I meet has nothing but sympathy for the Mccanns...very odd

Maybe you move in strange circles.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Benice - we cannot have evidence for the same reason as I have said time and again - the work of Social Services is confidential.  However I do know what goes on in a SSD and how situations can be approached and the other ways on which these situations can be dealt with if prosecution is not thought to be appropriate.

  I am at the stage now where I just don't believe you. Your assertion that children were removed from a family in similar circumstances to the McCanns seems ridiculous and unbelievable

Offline Mr Gray

Maybe you move in strange circles.

maybe others do..

CPN

  • Guest
  I am at the stage now where I just don't believe you. Your assertion that children were removed from a family in similar circumstances to the McCanns seems ridiculous and unbelievable

davel - I try to ignore your posts because you are always so rude and dismissive.  But this one - suffice to say , if you don't believe me - no problem.  I know about my work and how it was approached.  Whether you believe it or not is entirely up to you

Offline Mr Gray

davel - I try to ignore your posts because you are always so rude and dismissive.  But this one - suffice to say , if you don't believe me - no problem.  I know about my work and how it was approached.  Whether you believe it or not is entirely up to you

As I said...I don't believe what you are saying...the circumstances must have been very different..

Offline jassi

maybe others do..

No, its definitely you.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

No, its definitely you.

 You see you make an assertion based on no evidence...therefore your conclusion has no value..