Author Topic: Leonor Cipriano, her confession and subsequent silence in the killing of her daughter Joana.  (Read 90093 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

..but davel you were saying the other day accidental child deaths don't occur.

Or perhaps you were miss typing there as well.

I have NEVER said accidental child deaths don't occur.....your posts and reasoning are just so inaccurate,,,

Offline sadie

Bye bye Sadie, you have totally gone over the realms of reality if you think that women is a brave woman.

Anyway isnt there a seperate thread for Cipriano case?

She killed her daughter, now say after me.....
She killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughterShe killed her daughter.

GET IT? The child is dead.  8)><(
colom

Have you been brain washed? .... or do YOU brain wash others perchance?

Online Eleanor


Their obsession with death is all rather worrying.  One might think they want Madeleine to be dead..

Offline jassi

I find that all obsessions are worrying.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 09:16:44 AM by jassi »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Cariad

  • Guest
ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Her uncle admitted she died..........and they disposed of her body.....jeez this is ridiculous. She died get over it and move on. This case has nothing to do with the McCanns case.

Oh yeh apart from Amaral.

STOP dragging up the memory of this child for your own reasons.

This child was brutally murdered by her family.

JUST because they didnt find a body doesnt mean she is still alive, just that they havent found her body yet....

This. I find it genuinely upsetting. It's as though she's been assigned a walk on role in the Madeleine Mccann saga.

There is a thread about her and if any of you really think that she could still be alive, I suggest you start doing something about it. There are missing persons and Miscarriage of justice organisations you could contact. Look in to some of the MOJ'S that have been resolved and speak to the people involved with them.

If your only interest in Joana is to use as an example of how shit Dr Amaral is though, I really think you should consider that she was a real live little girl who has suffered terribly.

Offline VIXTE


The only reason Leonor confessed was because just for a moment, she regretted what she had done.

How would you know this?
Not even her priest would!

Offline John

How would you know this?
Not even her priest would!

It is human nature and happens all the time.   How many times have you been involved in a car accident or something similar when it is the other guy or gals fault.  They come over and apologise profusely for their mistake.  Next thing you know they are denying responsibility and claiming you did it.  So predictable...
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

The arrest and trial of Leanor and João Cipriano.

Some background facts in the case...

- Joana disappeared on the night of 12 September 2004.

- Leonor Cipriano was arrested and detained from 25 September 2004 while her brother, João Cipriano, was arrested two days later.

- The trial was due to commence on Wednesday 12 October 2005 but even before the reading of the indictment there was confusion over which lawyer had the legal authority to represent Leonor.  In the end lawyer João Grado was tasked with the defence with Lisbon lawyers João Vaz and Oliveira Cruz standing down.

- The trial was heard by a three judge panel headed by Alda Casimiro, seconded by Manuel Rui Banaco and Advinco Sequeira and included four jurors (three women and one man) chosen from the electoral roll in Portimão.  The final decision was up to the four jurors chosen from the electoral roll, namely, Diamene Silva (20) student, Marica Cunha (27) librarian technician, Marta Pereira (22) physiotherapist and Fernando Gonçalves (48) waiter.

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- The defendants refused to speak after the reading of the indictment having been advised of the advantages by their respective lawyers “entrar mudo e sair calado”.

- Investigations conducted by the Judicial Police of Faro coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral did not reach any clear proof against Leonor and João Cipriano - just a theory, a story that the prosecutor José Pinheiro struggled to defend in court.

- The trial heard how João Cipriano sent police to dozens of places where the dismembered body of Joan supposedly lay, including wastelands, waterways, sewers drains, dumps and piggeries.

- The trial heard testimony from 45 prosecution witnesses: neighbours, relatives, PJ inspectors involved in the investigation, forensic experts.

- In the first session of the trial,  Joana's stepfather, António Leandro, admitted that João Cipriano confessed that he and Leonor would answer for the crime of murder, desecration and hiding the corpse of little Joana. "He told me that the girl had seen them having sex and that they had killed the girl".  However, Leandro received a totally different version from Leonor when he visited her in prison. Leonor told him that the corpse of Joana was in an old house, where she had been "taken to the back", but he found nothing.

- The issue of Joana's maltreatment was raised several times but was not proven by any witness. A psychologist from the Protection of Minors, Ana Sofia Paias, said she detected " poverty ", but not abuse.

- Neighbours and acquaintances of Leonor and brother João were called by the prosecution to assess the personality of the accused.  The first witnesses, spoke of the past of Leonor Cipriano, questioned her performance as a mother of six children by five different relationships.

- A military GNR, Fernando Fernandes Ferreira, who was stationed in Portimao when the acts were committed, gave evidence to the Court via video - conferencing system.

- In about six hours of sitting, twenty witnesses were heard in the Court of Portimão - which attested to the rapidity with which the trial proceeded.

- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- A veterinarian, Cristina Simões, was called to testify in court. When questioned by prosecutor José Pinheiro Franco she said five or six pigs would be able to eat a body like Joana in 10 or 12 hours.

- On the last day of the trial the voice of João Cipriano was heard in court by virtue of a video recording made by the Judicial Police during investigations.  In brutal detail he confessed to killing Joana and of disposing of her body.  The defence objected claiming that João's words had no value since the defendants chose not to testify at trial. The judge overruled the objection.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro, also made a brief statement, acknowledging that a hacksaw which he used for manual labour had disappeared from the family home.

- At the conclusion of the evidence the prosecutor appealed to the pair, "If you have any little humanity left, tell us where the body is?"

- Prosecuting attorney, José Pinheiro, during closing arguments in the case asked for a sentence of 24 years for both defendants.  Leonor was seen to be visibly distressed at this.

- The trial lasted for 20 hours in total spread over three days.  On 11 November 2005, the verdicts were announced at Portimão Court with Leonor and João Cipriano being convicted of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- There were disagreements between prosecutors and the Judge of Instruction. The MP wanted a sentence of between 12-25 years while Judge Ana Soares was of the view that there were only indications of the practice by the defendants and suggested a sentence of between 16 months to six years and eight months was more appropriate.

- In the end, Leonor was sentenced to 20 yrs and 4 months while João was sentenced to 19 yrs and 2 months.  Leonor was given a longer sentence since she was the mother of the child.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 12:13:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Online Wonderfulspam

The arrest and trial of Leanor and João Cipriano.

Some background facts in the case...

- Joana disappeared on the night of 12 September 2004.

- Leonor Cipriano was arrested and detained from 25 September 2004 while her brother, João Cipriano, was arrested two days later.

- The trial was due to commence on Wednesday 12 October 2005 but even before the reading of the indictment there was confusion over which lawyer had the legal authority to represent Leonor.  In the end lawyer João Grado was tasked with the defence with Lisbon lawyers João Vaz and Oliveira Cruz standing down.

- The trial was heard by a three judge panel headed by Alda Casimiro, seconded by Manuel Rui Banaco and Advinco Sequeira and included four jurors (three women and one man) chosen from the electoral roll in Portimão.  The final decision was up to the four jurors chosen from the electoral roll, namely, Diamene Silva (20) student, Marica Cunha (27) librarian technician, Marta Pereira (22) physiotherapist and Fernando Gonçalves (48) waiter.

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- The defendants refused to speak after the reading of the indictment having been advised of the advantages by their respective lawyers “entrar mudo e sair calado”.

- Investigations conducted by the Judicial Police of Faro coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral did not reach any clear proof against Leonor and João Cipriano - just a theory, a story that the prosecutor José Pinheiro struggled to defend in court.

- The trial heard how João Cipriano sent police to dozens of places where the dismembered body of Joan supposedly lay, including wastelands, waterways, sewers drains, dumps and piggeries.

- The trial heard testimony from 45 prosecution witnesses: neighbours, relatives, PJ inspectors involved in the investigation, forensic experts.

- In the first session of the trial,  Joana's stepfather, António Leandro, admitted that João Cipriano confessed that he and Leonor would answer for the crime of murder, desecration and hiding the corpse of little Joana. "He told me that the girl had seen them having sex and that they had killed the girl".  However, Leandro received a totally different version from Leonor when he visited her in prison. Leonor told him that the corpse of Joana was in an old house, where she had been "taken to the back", but he found nothing.

- The issue of Joana's maltreatment was raised several times but was not proven by any witness. A psychologist from the Protection of Minors, Ana Sofia Paias, said she detected " poverty ", but not abuse.

- Neighbours and acquaintances of Leonor and brother João were called by the prosecution to assess the personality of the accused.  The first witnesses, spoke of the past of Leonor Cipriano, questioned her performance as a mother of six children by five different relationships.

- A military GNR, Fernando Fernandes Ferreira, who was stationed in Portimao when the acts were committed, gave evidence to the Court via video - conferencing system.

- In about six hours of sitting, twenty witnesses were heard in the Court of Portimão - which attested to the rapidity with which the trial proceeded.

- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- A veterinarian, Cristina Simões, was called to testify in court. When questioned by prosecutor José Pinheiro Franco she said five or six pigs would be able to eat a body like Joana in 10 or 12 hours.

- On the last day of the trial the voice of João Cipriano was heard in court by virtue of a video recording made by the Judicial Police during investigations.  In brutal detail he confessed to killing Joana and of disposing of her body.  The defence objected claiming that João's words had no value since the defendants chose not to testify at trial. The judge overruled the objection.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro, also made a brief statement, acknowledging that a hacksaw which he used for manual labour had disappeared from the family home.

- At the conclusion of the evidence the prosecutor appealed to the pair, "If you have any little humanity left, tell us where the body is?"

- Prosecuting attorney, José Pinheiro, during closing arguments in the case asked for a sentence of 24 years for both defendants.  Leonor was seen to be visibly distressed at this.

- The trial lasted for 20 hours in total spread over three days.  On 11 November 2005, the verdicts were announced at Portimão Court with Leonor and João Cipriano being convicted of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- There were disagreements between prosecutors and the Judge of Instruction. The MP wanted a sentence of between 12-25 years while Judge Ana Soares was of the view that there were only indications of the practice by the defendants and suggested a sentence of between 16 months to six years and eight months was more appropriate.

- In the end, Leonor was sentenced to 20 yrs and 4 months while João was sentenced to 19 yrs and 2 months.  Leonor was given a longer sentence since she was the mother of the child.


- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- A veterinarian, Cristina Simões, was called to testify in court. When questioned by prosecutor José Pinheiro Franco she said five or six pigs would be able to eat a body like Joana in 10 or 12 hours.



Nasty.

The poor little girl

They should be left to rot.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Carana

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Her uncle admitted she died..........and they disposed of her body.....jeez this is ridiculous. She died get over it and move on. This case has nothing to do with the McCanns case.

Oh yeh apart from Amaral.

STOP dragging up the memory of this child for your own reasons.

This child was brutally murdered by her family.

JUST because they didnt find a body doesnt mean she is still alive, just that they havent found her body yet....

Yes, I am serious. She might well be dead, but she might not be. Whether she is or she isn't, she still deserves to be found and those who cared for her need to know what happened.

It's not just that a body hasn't been found. Like everyone else, I was hoping against hope that little April would be found, but I accepted the forensic evidence in that case. There is none in Joana's case.

I don't consider confessions or a reconstruction in dubious circumstances to be proof of anything.

Even if she is dead, I'm not convinced that the right people are in jail. If they are guilty, then they are where they should be: in jail, serving long sentences. However, if they are, in fact, innocent then someone else is responsible who's still free.



Offline Carana

There is a seperate thread for the cipriano case and that's why I was so surprised that a mod wanted to discuss it at length on this forum. Iits been discussed at length on its own forum and its obvious to me the evidence was very weak to non existent. Portugal seem to rely heavily on confessions and innuendo...as in the McCann case building a case in the press through leaks so that by the time the case  gets to court a fair trial is impossible. This also seems to have happened in the Knox case in Italy...the judge has now admitted his judgement was swayed...although I don't know enough about the case to have a valid opinion.

You must understand that posters have different viewpoints and their viewpoints are just as valid..

I agree. There seems to be a totally perverse process at work. Luckily, the little boy in Madeira was found alive.

Offline Carana

The arrest and trial of Leanor and João Cipriano.

Some background facts in the case...

- Joana disappeared on the night of 12 September 2004.

- Leonor Cipriano was arrested and detained from 25 September 2004 while her brother, João Cipriano, was arrested two days later.

- The trial was due to commence on Wednesday 12 October 2005 but even before the reading of the indictment there was confusion over which lawyer had the legal authority to represent Leonor.  In the end lawyer João Grado was tasked with the defence with Lisbon lawyers João Vaz and Oliveira Cruz standing down.

- The trial was heard by a three judge panel headed by Alda Casimiro, seconded by Manuel Rui Banaco and Advinco Sequeira and included four jurors (three women and one man) chosen from the electoral roll in Portimão.  The final decision was up to the four jurors chosen from the electoral roll, namely, Diamene Silva (20) student, Marica Cunha (27) librarian technician, Marta Pereira (22) physiotherapist and Fernando Gonçalves (48) waiter.

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- The defendants refused to speak after the reading of the indictment having been advised of the advantages by their respective lawyers “entrar mudo e sair calado”.

- Investigations conducted by the Judicial Police of Faro coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral did not reach any clear proof against Leonor and João Cipriano - just a theory, a story that the prosecutor José Pinheiro struggled to defend in court.

- The trial heard how João Cipriano sent police to dozens of places where the dismembered body of Joan supposedly lay, including wastelands, waterways, sewers drains, dumps and piggeries.

- The trial heard testimony from 45 prosecution witnesses: neighbours, relatives, PJ inspectors involved in the investigation, forensic experts.

- In the first session of the trial,  Joana's stepfather, António Leandro, admitted that João Cipriano confessed that he and Leonor would answer for the crime of murder, desecration and hiding the corpse of little Joana. "He told me that the girl had seen them having sex and that they had killed the girl".  However, Leandro received a totally different version from Leonor when he visited her in prison. Leonor told him that the corpse of Joana was in an old house, where she had been "taken to the back", but he found nothing.

- The issue of Joana's maltreatment was raised several times but was not proven by any witness. A psychologist from the Protection of Minors, Ana Sofia Paias, said she detected " poverty ", but not abuse.

- Neighbours and acquaintances of Leonor and brother João were called by the prosecution to assess the personality of the accused.  The first witnesses, spoke of the past of Leonor Cipriano, questioned her performance as a mother of six children by five different relationships.

- A military GNR, Fernando Fernandes Ferreira, who was stationed in Portimao when the acts were committed, gave evidence to the Court via video - conferencing system.

- In about six hours of sitting, twenty witnesses were heard in the Court of Portimão - which attested to the rapidity with which the trial proceeded.

- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- A veterinarian, Cristina Simões, was called to testify in court. When questioned by prosecutor José Pinheiro Franco she said five or six pigs would be able to eat a body like Joana in 10 or 12 hours.

- On the last day of the trial the voice of João Cipriano was heard in court by virtue of a video recording made by the Judicial Police during investigations.  In brutal detail he confessed to killing Joana and of disposing of her body.  The defence objected claiming that João's words had no value since the defendants chose not to testify at trial. The judge overruled the objection.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro, also made a brief statement, acknowledging that a hacksaw which he used for manual labour had disappeared from the family home.

- At the conclusion of the evidence the prosecutor appealed to the pair, "If you have any little humanity left, tell us where the body is?"

- Prosecuting attorney, José Pinheiro, during closing arguments in the case asked for a sentence of 24 years for both defendants.  Leonor was seen to be visibly distressed at this.

- The trial lasted for 20 hours in total spread over three days.  On 11 November 2005, the verdicts were announced at Portimão Court with Leonor and João Cipriano being convicted of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- There were disagreements between prosecutors and the Judge of Instruction. The MP wanted a sentence of between 12-25 years while Judge Ana Soares was of the view that there were only indications of the practice by the defendants and suggested a sentence of between 16 months to six years and eight months was more appropriate.

- In the end, Leonor was sentenced to 20 yrs and 4 months while João was sentenced to 19 yrs and 2 months.  Leonor was given a longer sentence since she was the mother of the child.

You haven't noted the numerous neutral-to-positive witness statements that found Leonor to be a good mother to Joana and her younger siblings. They weren't translated for some reason.

Redblossom

  • Guest
if these two were innocent where are all the "free the ciprianos /miscarriage of justice " campaigns?

 >@@(*&)

Has no one really fought for them?

 >@@(*&)


Eta Cariad, I hadnt read all the posts on here, before posting, so I kind of dittoed your post. Great minds

 8)--))


Also a few months ago there was a call to have a sub forum just for this case, some idiots though objected claiming it was moved from the Madeleine forum to hide Mr Amarals crimes! Tut.

I agree each case should be on its own merits not compared to every other case..indeed the Mccanns have  linked Madeleines disappearance to all sorts of missing children and adult disappearances. Alot of the time no link whatsoever and if there was ne extremely tenuous.


« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 02:50:58 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Carana

This. I find it genuinely upsetting. It's as though she's been assigned a walk on role in the Madeleine Mccann saga.

There is a thread about her and if any of you really think that she could still be alive, I suggest you start doing something about it. There are missing persons and Miscarriage of justice organisations you could contact. Look in to some of the MOJ'S that have been resolved and speak to the people involved with them.

If your only interest in Joana is to use as an example of how shit Dr Amaral is though, I really think you should consider that she was a real live little girl who has suffered terribly.

Was your comment addressed to me as opposed to Colombo by any chance?

If so, I was one of the people trying to get her case moved out of the Madeleine forum to keep the cases separate.

Offline Carana

if these two were innocent where are all the "free the ciprianos /miscarriage of justice " campaigns?

 >@@(*&)

Has no one really fought for them?

 >@@(*&)

Interesting question. Are there any Portuguese forums related to potential miscarriages of justice?