Scotland Yard and the PJ have stated the McCanns are not suspects.

[Carana]

Also if the defendant has already been villified, tried and found guilty in the press and the general public have been whipped up to 'lynch' mode by the time the case came to court,  then it would be a brave Juror  - who would be able to ignore the possible repercussions to themselves of a 'Not guilty' verdict IMO - especially if they were not anonymous.

Potentially at risk of vigilante attacks...

[Eleanor]

It is a fact that Portugal relied on the evidence of The PJ for far too long, and even some Judges took it as gospel.
There are now almost countless accusations of torture coming to light, even in 2011.
What price Secrecy when serious cases are leaked to The Media in the most alarming fashion.

Whether or not someone is guilty is beside the point.

[Carana]

It is a fact that Portugal relied on the evidence of The PJ for far too long, and even some Judges took it as gospel.
There are now almost countless accusations of torture coming to light, even in 2011.
What price Secrecy when serious cases are leaked to The Media in the most alarming fashion.

Whether or not someone is guilty is beside the point.

Torture, other means of coercion, bluff or not. How would a poor family (in Portugal or elsewhere), with constant PJ "leaks" appearing in the tabloids, be able to adequately defend themselves?

How much time do state-appointed or pro bono attorneys actually spend on studying files? If counter tests need to be done... who pays for that, if anyone? Or don't they get done at all?

[Eleanor]

Torture, other means of coercion, bluff or not. How would a poor family (in Portugal or elsewhere), with constant PJ "leaks" appearing in the tabloids, be able to adequately defend themselves?

How much time do state-appointed or pro bono attorneys actually spend on studying files? If counter tests need to be done... who pays for that, if anyone? Or don't they get done at all?

Not sure if this is Off Topic, but whatever.  It was all fast heading this way with The McCanns.  The Portuguese Media were doing a sterling job in the court of public opinion.  And from sources that can only have come from The PJ.  So nothing to suppose that this hadn't happened before.
The McCanns did have the resources, but common peasants in Portugal did not.  And no one cared enough anyway.

But it appals me to discover that even in 2011 The PJ were still subjecting people to torture to gain a confession.  What do they think will happen under these circumstances, and a Media assault?

And I should not even have to ask this question.

[John]

Not sure if this is Off Topic, but whatever.  It was all fast heading this way with The McCanns.  The Portuguese Media were doing a sterling job in the court of public opinion.  And from sources that can only have come from The PJ.  So nothing to suppose that this hadn't happened before.
The McCanns did have the resources, but common peasants in Portugal did not.  And no one cared enough anyway.

But it appals me to discover that even in 2011 The PJ were still subjecting people to torture to gain a confession.  What do they think will happen under these circumstances, and a Media assault?

And I should not even have to ask this question.

Eleanor, I have seen it all with my own eyes albeit next door in Alicante.  Guardia Civil (Spanish police) beating a disabled British tourist with a stick and functionarios in Foncalent whipping a Spanish inmate with a belt while he was strapped face-down on a bed and that's for starters!   Lets face it, many similar things go on in British police stations too.

After the lawyers visit on the night before the Arguido Interviews, Kate herself speaks of being on the verge of being arrested, she was rightly concerned both for themselves as well as the children.  She must have been petrified.

[Anna]

Eleanor, I have seen it all with my own eyes albeit next door in Alicante.  Guardia Civil (Spanish police) beating a disabled British tourist with a stick and functionarios in Foncalent whipping a Spanish inmate with a belt while he was strapped face-down on a bed and that's for starters!   Lets face it, many similar things go on in British police stations too.

After the lawyers visit on the night before the Arguido Interviews, Kate herself speaks of being on the verge of being arrested, she was rightly concerned both for themselves as well as the children.  She must have been petrified.

I think they were definitely after Kate. How much more frightening can it get, than the ordeal she went through. Do the police not like women in Portugal?

[Eleanor]

Eleanor, I have seen it all with my own eyes albeit next door in Alicante.  Guardia Civil (Spanish police) beating a disabled British tourist with a stick and functionarios in Foncalent whipping a Spanish inmate with a belt while he was strapped face-down on a bed and that's for starters!   Lets face it, many similar things go on in British police stations too.

After the lawyers visit on the night before the Arguido Interviews, Kate herself speaks of being on the verge of being arrested, she was rightly concerned both for themselves as well as the children.  She must have been petrified.

Yes, the same things have been known to happen in UK.  And I don't even know if that is over yet.  But so much more terrifying in a foreign country.

It only really grieves me that so many lies were told, without the chance of redress.  The McCanns faced prison for breaking the secrecy laws, while The PJ completely ignored their own instituted laws.
Whether or not The McCanns were guilty was entirely irrelevant at the time.
Given normal circumstances in Portugal, and without a half decent barrister, Kate McCann would have been found guilty.  That is terrifying.  And there would have been sweet b....r all that The UK could have done about it.
This was the reality.

[Carana]

Eleanor, I have seen it all with my own eyes albeit next door in Alicante.  Guardia Civil (Spanish police) beating a disabled British tourist with a stick and functionarios in Foncalent whipping a Spanish inmate with a belt while he was strapped face-down on a bed and that's for starters!   Lets face it, many similar things go on in British police stations too.

After the lawyers visit on the night before the Arguido Interviews, Kate herself speaks of being on the verge of being arrested, she was rightly concerned both for themselves as well as the children.  She must have been petrified.

That's appalling, John, wherever it takes place. Without wishing to take this thread off topic, I don't understand why you feel that such treatment is unlikely in the Cipriano case.



ETA: For anyone not familiar with this case:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=71.0

[Eleanor]

I think they were definitely after Kate. How much more frightening can it get, than the ordeal she went through. Do the police not like women in Portugal?

Do you know, Anna.  I don't know.  But they were most definitely after Kate McCann.  Perhaps because they think that women are more easy to intimidate.  But they wouldn't be alone in that.

Me?  I would probably have keeled over at the first hint of violence.

[Benice]

I think they were definitely after Kate. How much more frightening can it get, than the ordeal she went through. Do the police not like women in Portugal?

I could be wrong, but I don't remember there being any policeWOMEN in Amaral's team - either.    And yes I agree - it was Kate who they had firmly in their sights.   The 'deal' she was offered that if she admitted to a lesser charge, Gerry could go home was proof of that IMO.

[Eleanor]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember there being any policeWOMEN in Amaral's team - either.    And yes I agree - it was Kate who they had firmly in their sights.   The 'deal' she was offered that if she admitted to a lesser charge, Gerry could go home was proof of that IMO.

La la la.  Can you imagine this scenario in Britain?  The CPS would be laughed out of existence.  Not that they are doing very well at the moment.  How many Paedophile Prosecutions have they recently lost?

[ferryman]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember there being any policeWOMEN in Amaral's team - either.    And yes I agree - it was Kate who they had firmly in their sights.   The 'deal' she was offered that if she admitted to a lesser charge, Gerry could go home was proof of that IMO.

I think, if Kate and Gerry had been suckered into that, both would have ended up in prison for life.

[Carana]

I think, if Kate and Gerry had been suckered into that, both would have ended up in prison for life.

That seems fairly obvious to me.

Even if you cave in and admit to something that you hadn't done to try to guarantee that your kids, OH, could go home... it wouldn't have happened. Even if she had "admitted" to an accidental death as a relatively minor charge compared to a full-blown murder one, the next questions would have been "what happened to the body?" and who assisted her.

[Eleanor]

That seems fairly obvious to me.

Even if you cave in and admit to something that you hadn't done to try to guarantee that your kids, OH, could go home... it wouldn't have happened. Even if she had "admitted" to an accidental death as a relatively minor charge compared to a full-blown murder one, the next questions would have been "what happened to the body?" and who assisted her.

Indeed.  What happened to the body?  But that is a minor detail, only resulting in a run around the countryside.  But Portuguese Justice and The PJ know how to deal with that.  They have many documented theories.  Just pick the least ridiculous.

[sadie]

I think, if Kate and Gerry had been suckered into that, both would have ended up in prison for life.

For life.

I agree with you Ferryman.   I think it has to be for "life" to shut them up (shut their mouths up) for a long time, cos they might cause trouble if only locked up for a few years.  The PJ dont want trouble because someone is publicly  unravelling the facts, do they?