The initial time-line and events immediately after 10pm.

[Silkywhiskers]

As far as I am aware Sillywhiskers, they aimed to meet at 8.30pm, never 7.30 pm.   But some were later than that. Please correct me if I am wrong.

On the 3rd of May, that fateful night, they had all finished their main course well before 10pm, 9.45 seems to ring a bell.  That is except for Russell whose little one had been poorly IIRC and he came back to finish his meal later.  He was still eating his mains, or just finishing, when the alarm started.

Then there was pudding  ... and/ or maybe cheese and biscuits.  Most peeps dont bother with Cheese and biccies after a big meal, but some might, I suppose.

It is you that needs to read the files.  I have done that altho I no longer do since my eyesight was ruined by posters on here insisting that I verified everthing with references.  I now only write what my memory tells me and ask for peeps to correct me if I am wrong.


I sincerely suggest that YOU read the files.  Could open your eyes if you are not too entrenched in myths and make believe.

Always happy to correct someone who is wrong.  From the McCanns own typewritten timeline, given to the PJ on 10 May 2007.




2100: MO return to the table. Starters were ordered.
 
2105: GM returns to his flat (5A) and enters via the patio gate entrance. This and a child gate at the top of the stairs were closed at the time. He enters the flat via the patio door which is closed but unlocked.

The door is slightly ajar (about 45 degrees) which is unusual. All the 3 children were present and asleep. GM believes the shutter was down. The room in which the children are asleep is completely dark. On leaving the room, GM shuts the door to approximately 5 degrees. He then goes to the toilet to urinate.

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM has also returned. The entire party then begins eating their starters which have arrived.

2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.



2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell.


2145: RJO returns to table to eat main course leaving JT in 5D.
 
2155: RMO asked time at table. RJO's main course arrives

Unless he was a speed eater, Oldfield at least is still eating at 10.

[sadie]

Always happy to correct someone who is wrong.  From the McCanns own typewritten timeline, given to the PJ on 10 May 2007.




2100: MO return to the table. Starters were ordered.
 
2105: GM returns to his flat (5A) and enters via the patio gate entrance. This and a child gate at the top of the stairs were closed at the time. He enters the flat via the patio door which is closed but unlocked.

The door is slightly ajar (about 45 degrees) which is unusual. All the 3 children were present and asleep. GM believes the shutter was down. The room in which the children are asleep is completely dark. On leaving the room, GM shuts the door to approximately 5 degrees. He then goes to the toilet to urinate.

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM has also returned. The entire party then begins eating their starters which have arrived.

2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.



2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell.


2145: RJO returns to table to eat main course leaving JT in 5D.
 
2155: RMO asked time at table. RJO's main course arrives

Unless he was a speed eater, Oldfield at least is still eating at 10.

Who is RMO ?

Matt Oldfield had finished his main meal by about 9.45 it seems.  You are wrong he was NOT still eating at 10 pm.  Russell was late because he had stayed at his apartment looking after his daughter, Evie.  Jane had eaten her meal and gone to relieve him at about 9.45.  That was the time he returned for his main course.   The waiter called for his steak to be recooked  ... a new one, I guess.  He had only been eating for about 5 minutes before the alarm.

Why do you keep getting things wrong Sillywhiskers?




The timeline you give is truncated.   It does not confirm, or otherwise, the start of the evening. 

I can assure you that it started at about 8.30 pm when Kate and Gerry arrived. The Oldfields and the "O'Briens" arrived soon after, but as the Paynes were late and preventing the start of the meal, Matt went to fetch them.  He checked both his apartment ... and the Mccanns <<< by listening.  This was at about 9pm.  And you start your copy and paste when he returned to the table at about 9.05pm ... not at the start of the evening.



Sillywhiskers, almost all your so called facts are wrong.  It is NOT fair to misquote and twist facts.  Lets have the correct information please, otherwise you will be starting more myths and piling the propaganda on the Mccanns.

FAIR PLAY please.

[Silkywhiskers]

Who is RMO ?

Matt Oldfield had finished his main meal by about 9.45 it seems.  You are wrong he was NOT still eating at 10 pm.  Russell was late because he had stayed at his apartment looking after his daughter, Evie.  Jane had eaten her meal and gone to relieve him at about 9.45.  That was the time he returned for his main course.   The waiter called for his steak to be recooked  ... a new one, I guess.  He had only been eating for about 5 minutes before the alarm.

Why do you keep getting things wrong Sillywhiskers?




The timeline you give is truncated.   It does not confirm, or otherwise, the start of the evening. 

I can assure you that it started at about 8.30 pm when Kate and Gerry arrived. The Oldfields and the "O'Briens" arrived soon after, but as the Paynes were late and preventing the start of the meal, Matt went to fetch them.  He checked both his apartment ... and the Mccanns <<< by listening.  This was at about 9pm.  And you start your copy and paste when he returned to the table at about 9.05pm ... not at the start of the evening.



Sillywhiskers, almost all your so called facts are wrong.  It is NOT fair to misquote and twist facts.  Lets have the correct information please, otherwise you will be starting more myths and piling the propaganda on the Mccanns.

FAIR PLAY please.

Its Silky not silly.

Another one who cant read, or who thinks it amusing to cyber bully....

FAIR PLAY - RMO is Rachel Manpilly Oldfield.

[sadie]

Its Silky not silly.

Another one who cant read, or who thinks it amusing to cyber bully....

FAIR PLAY - RMO is Rachel Manpilly Oldfield.

Oh thankyou Sil^ywhiskers.  I wasn't aware that she hadn't finished.  Must have orderd something special or have been a very slow eater or gone to the loo, or something.  Cos most of them finished their mains by about 9.45 IIRC.





Psst.  Sillywhiskers has a much nicer ring to it than Silkywhiskers.  Try not to take it so seriously ... just a leg pull as has happened many times before on this forum before.  Only fair to say that you do get a lot wrong tho.

[Silkywhiskers]

Oh thankyou Sil^ywhiskers.  I wasn't aware that she hadn't finished.  Must have orderd something special or have been a very slow eater or gone to the loo, or something.  Cos most of them finished their mains by about 9.45 IIRC.





Psst.  Sillywhiskers has a much nicer ring to it than Silkywhiskers.  Try not to take it so seriously ... just a leg pull as has happened many times before on this forum before.  Only fair to say that you do get a lot wrong tho.

Show me what i got "wrong".

[sadie]

SWhiskers

Show me what i got "wrong".

It is all in the previous posts.  To name just a few:
1)  You have Oldfield still eating at 10pm when likely they all had finished by 9.45
2)  You have the evening starting at 7.30 when it started at 8.30 ish
3)  You have them all eating until about 11 pm when that is over an hour later than the correct time
4)  You have the evenings taking 5 hours when they only took 3 - 3 1/2 hours generally.  One night they were late and took about 4 to 4 1/2 hours.  Never 5 hours that I can find.



Why such massive exaggerations?  You are altering the FACTS and producing myths and propaganda

[Silkywhiskers]

SWhiskers

It is all in the previous posts.  To name just a few:

1)  You have Oldfield still eating at 10pm when likely they all had finished by 9.45  "Likely"?????? You are stating this as fact remember!!!!

2)  You have the evening starting at 7.30 when it started at 8.30 ish I was speaking of the general routine not that night in particular and the importance of this is....?

3)  You have them all eating until about 11 pm when that is over an hour later than the correct time Where did I say they were eating at 11????!!!!

4)  You have the evenings taking 5 hours when they only took 3 - 3 1/2 hours generally.  One night they were late and took about 4 to 4 1/2 hours.  Never 5 hours that I can find. Do the sums.

Kate was on her check at 10.  She was NOT turning in for the evening.  She was on a "routine check", presumably to return to the restaurant  afterwards to continue consuming WHATEVER.  Next you will say I'm wrong because the dinner service pattern was plain instead of spotted.  It doesn't matter, it doesn't affect the important detail of that night which is, if Madeleine had been in that bed, Kate would have returned to the restaurant and carried on the same as every other night.



Why such massive exaggerations?  You are altering the FACTS and producing myths and propaganda

[Carew]

Gerry looked. Matt looked (only seeing two kids admittedly but Madeleine he presumed was around the corner and no disturbance heard), Kate went to the bedroom door and listened as any parent in the Uk would often do when checking their kids.

Why are you obfuscating Red?

Let's have the truth, Red.    Gerry and Matt looked .  All three, Kate included, went into the apartment and nothing out of order, just a minor niggle about the amount the door was open.  Until kate noticed the door being wrong and went to check, then it slammed.  She looked too, when you think about it.



The TRUTH please Red.

Am trying to get out.  A long drive (for me) ahead.

Excuse me

The truth is that on the night Madeleine disappeared you could count on the thumbs of one hand the number of "checkers" who stated that they went in and actually saw Madeleine inside the apartment, during their so-called "superior service."

How would they know by simply going into the apartment but not actually looking at Madeleine that "nothing was out of order" when the open apartment allowed access in and out?

Promoting this as some sort of superior listening service is where the myth and propaganda exists imo.

[colombosstogey]

Do you know anything about this case at all?  Have you even read the PJ files?

The Tapas crew met every night, around 7.30 - 8.30, when they would proceed to carouse until at least midnight.

It is in the PJ files.   These were creatures of habit, except for the last night when everything inexplicably changed.

Dont take my word for it - Tanner went on her "check" at 9.15 just before the "starters" arrived.

This means that they only just ordered them, probably at 9.

Which means in turn the "mains" wont show up till 10ish.  Another hour to serve and eat the mains takes you through to 11pm.

We also know they were in the habit of retiring to the bar after eating, for "nightcaps".  Another hour spent away from the kids.

This takes us through to midnight, no matter where you went to school it's at LEAST 4 hours depending on the start time.

The point is surely, they left their children alone EVERY NIGHT to eat and drink and chat.

It was their time in the evening.

During the day it was the creche workers time to look after the kids, and the afternoon, then the kids got about an hour before bed with parents, then it was the parents time.

ALSO we havent got a clue, how often they checked their children prior to the 3rd May. I dont believe they checked much, possibly once or twice. What would be the point of eating out and spending the time toing and froing checking the kids. They could have easily have rotated their apartments each night, and ate in, and drank on their balconies and letting the kids sleep over for a few hours.

What i will NEVER forgive them for is leaving them again after the child mentioned it on the morning.

How could any good catholic parent do that to their children.

ALSO ONE MUST NEVER FORGET.....IF the child was not missing at 10pm after the check, Mrs McCann was GOING BACK TO THE TAPAS bar not going home, so was still out for the night.

[slartibartfast]

I'm not sure, Icabodcrane, it would have been easier, when they concocted the third time-line, for Matthew to be uncertain about the state of the curtains.
The lack of forensic evidence that someone passed through the window made their dramatic "jemmy" description (the crucial ingredient in the story telling) collapse and they needed a second best : the whooshing curtains revealing a horrible dark opening on evil.

As was quoted the other day...

Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.

[Carana]

That is in fact true.  Both the tapas-9 friend and the family member who contacted the BBC and Sky News did not contact the police beforehand, that responsibility was left to AN Other.

The comment should not be taken to mean that the Press were contacted before the police.

Quite. The group split up to do what they could.

Gerry and Matt had been trying to get the OC to ring the police.

Rachel contacted a friend whose husband worked for the BBC; David sent an email to Sky in the early hours of the morning (which apparently no one on Sky read when it came in).

They were all trying to help in different ways.

The long-held rumour that Kate had rung Sky prior to ringing the police doesn't seem to have any credence whatsoever.

[Wonderfulspam]

Quite. The group split up to do what they could.

Gerry and Matt had been trying to get the OC to ring the police.

Rachel contacted a friend whose husband worked for the BBC; David sent an email to Sky in the early hours of the morning (which apparently no one on Sky read when it came in).

They were all trying to help in different ways.

The long-held rumour that Kate had rung Sky prior to ringing the police doesn't seem to have any credence whatsoever.

Gerry and Matt had been trying to get the OC to ring the police.


Because they didn't know how to operate a phone themselves & they had far too much searching to do.

[John]

Quite. The group split up to do what they could.

Gerry and Matt had been trying to get the OC to ring the police.

Rachel contacted a friend whose husband worked for the BBC; David sent an email to Sky in the early hours of the morning (which apparently no one on Sky read when it came in).

They were all trying to help in different ways.

The long-held rumour that Kate had rung Sky prior to ringing the police doesn't seem to have any credence whatsoever.

Immediately after the alert that Madeleine was gone, her parents wouldn't have been in any fit state to contact anyone.  The term 'headless chickens' comes to mind. The wailing episodes in reception and in the bedroom of apartment 5a would bear this out.

In fact, I don't know how they can remember much of those initial events as the mind tends to blank out such trauma?

[VIXTE]

Contrary to what was reported previously, the judge has not yet set a date for the next hearing.  The reason for this appears to be that both sides have asked for clarification of several matters from the judge.

 Not really. Those who were in Portugal, did act after the police was called.. they did not have to call them personally because the police was already called.
Those who were in the UK, why would they call the UK police, the crime never happened in the UK?

[Carana]

Immediately after the alert that Madeleine was gone, her parents wouldn't have been in any fit state to contact anyone.  The term 'headless chickens' comes to mind.

In fact, I don't know how they can remember much of those initial events as the mind tends to blank out such trauma?

Russ's initiative was to try to get the timeline down, as in when could this have possibly taken place. I personally think that that was quite sensible before people's minds blanked out in the trauma of the situation.