Translated documents are prone to errors.

[Carana]

Obviously the team under Amaral were keeping him briefed as they were obliged to do. He didn't require to have a physical presence to know what was going on.

No, but (IMO) the issue is then that some of what he says can come across as misleading. Someone who has witnessed something directly may come across as more credible (it must be true, he was there), than if it's second- or thirdhand hearsay, with the potential for a Chinese whispers effect along the way. Without knowing who the intermediaries are (and the extent of their understanding of English and their perceptions), there is presumably room for misunderstanding.

[Carana]

One would think that if the police were going to use GM's profession 'against' him (which is in effect what TdA was doing) then they would make sure they got his profession right in the first place. 

I don't believe Gerry would have said he was a surgeon at any time.

But if someone (preferably an LP officer, possibly intended as an innocent quip, whether that person had any idea or not) told them he was a surgeon, that's good enough to cite it as fact. The "fact" being that that is what they may have been told, not that it was verified that that was his profession.

[John]

If it was all quite normal then why would Amaral want to conceal that fact from his readers?   There is not the smallest clue in his book that he had never actually met or spoken to the McCanns.    In fact quite the opposite impression is promoted - and deliberately so IMO.

Maybe one of the Portuguese members can answer this.  Is it normal for the Coordinator to meet the arguidos in a criminal investigation?   Certainly in the UK it is not normal for a Detective Chief Superintendent to meet suspects as that job is left to more junior staff members.

[Luz]

When you have people alleging that documents that were produced in english by english speaking persons are wrong, you can expect everything.

They act like those poor foxes they so much like to hunt.

[Carana]

When you have people alleging that documents that were produced in english by english speaking persons are wrong, you can expect everything.

They act like those poor foxes they so much like to hunt.

Off the top of my head:

- where is it stated in the files that Gerry is a heart surgeon?
- where is there an official record of Stu Prior's alleged phone conversation with FSS?

[Carana]

What does it have to do with what I said?!

You should worry about the case and not with fabricating lies, as if that would excuse the McCann's.

We were actually discussing translation errors / mistakes in original documents and potential errors due to misunderstandings.

Perhaps you didn't have time to read the thread before reacting...

NB: What lies have I fabricated?

[Luz]

If McCann was not a heart surgeon why would he be mentioned as such in the police files?
What people say in small talk is not, fortunately, registered in police reports;

Why should phone conversations by Prior be reported & inserted in the official files - did you expect PJ to make reports whenever they went to the loo?!

[Carana]

Thanks for your Monday morning replies, Luz.

Fascinating, as always.

[Carana]

If McCann was not a heart surgeon why would he be mentioned as such in the police files?
What people say in small talk is not, fortunately, registered in police reports;

Why should phone conversations by Prior be reported & inserted in the official files - did you expect PJ to make reports whenever they went to the loo?!

I wouldn't expect loo conversations between PJ officers to be published in a book accusing the parents of a missing child of crimes... But then I guess we see things differently.

[pegasus]

A lame watered down apology by the incompetent bbc:
--------------------------
ECU Ruling: East Midlands Today, BBC1 (East Midlands), 12 January 2011

Complaint
The programme included a brief exchange between a reporter and Gonçalo Amaral (a former policeman who had worked on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and had since written a book on the case). One word in the exchange was bleeped, and the report gave the impression that this was because Sr Amaral had used offensive language about the MrCanns. A viewer complained that this was inaccurate and unfair to Sr Amaral.

Outcome
The reporter's belief, reinforced by others on the programme team who viewed the recording, was that Sr Amaral had indeed used an English phrase which included an offensive term applied to the McCanns. On further examination, however, it became clear that Sr Amaral had been speaking Portuguese, and that an inoffensive phrase had been misconstrued. Upheld

Further action
The Editor of the programme has discussed the outcome with the producer and reporter involved. In future, the team plans to use interpreters if clips from interviews are unclear.
------------------------------------------

[pegasus]

The amazing beebeecee approach to translation: Do not use a translator. Just assume portuguese people are talking english and if you hear some portuguese that sounds like an english swear word, go with it. Don't worry if the mistake of turning "Fala com" ("ask the") into "F------"  spreads to huge headlines on the front pages of every tabloid. And ff anyone files an official complaint about it just issue some watered down minimal admission and be sure not to use the word "apologise" or "sorry".

[Estuarine]

Sorry which side are you arguing from?

You've been rumbled Slarti. Mr Big in a sinister international band of link and knicker nickers (see another thread for that).

[Silkywhiskers]

If McCann was not a heart surgeon why would he be mentioned as such in the police files?
What people say in small talk is not, fortunately, registered in police reports;

Why should phone conversations by Prior be reported & inserted in the official files - did you expect PJ to make reports whenever they went to the loo?!

FOR THE FINAL TIME - GERRY MCCANN WAS A HEART SURGEON.

It is a prerequisite of entry to the Training for the specialisation.

NO CARDIOLOGIST goes straight from veruca warts to cardiology.  How insane.

He is NO LONGER performing surgery but that does not mean he didn't perform heart surgery.  He did.  A lot.

[pegasus]

IMO the biggest translation error ever made in this case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA5R7c1c42A
Mr Amaral actually said "Fala com os Mccanns" ("Ask the Mccanns") but the BBC instead of thinking to use a translator just went with oh that sounds like he said "F------- Mccanns" and so the BBC broadcast that incorrect allegation, which was then parroted nastily on front pages of UK tabloids.
Lucky they don't run the World Service. Oh hang on they do.  8-)(--) 

[Benice]

IMO the biggest translation error ever made in this case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA5R7c1c42A
Mr Amaral actually said "Fala com os Mccanns" ("Ask the Mccanns") but the BBC instead of thinking to use a translator just went with oh that sounds like he said "F------- Mccanns" and so the BBC broadcast that incorrect allegation, which was then parroted nastily on front pages of UK tabloids.
Does this indicate that the BBC are "Fala com" incompetent?  >@@(*&)

On the other hand Pegasus when you ask a person a question in English - and that question is answered without hesitation using what sounds very much like English words - it seems reasonable enough to assume that the reply was actually in English.    It was a genuine and understandable mistake IMO.

For someone who IIRC we have been told in the past does not speak English - he certainly had no difficulty in understanding the question.