Translated documents are prone to errors.

[icabodcrane]

On the other hand Pegasus when you ask a person a question in English - and that question is answered without hesitation using what sounds very much like English words - it seems reasonable enough to assume that the reply was actually in English.    It was a genuine and understandable mistake IMO.

For someone who IIRC we have been told in the past does not speak English - he certainly had no difficulty in understanding the question.
 

Why can't you just acknowledge that Amaral's words were mistranslated,  and that he was 'reviled'  in the British press for a phrase he had never used  ? 

Is it only the McCanns who are permitted to play the  'lost in translation'  card  ?

[sadie]

FOR THE FINAL TIME - GERRY MCCANN WAS A HEART SURGEON.

It is a prerequisite of entry to the Training for the specialisation.

NO CARDIOLOGIST goes straight from veruca warts to cardiology.  How insane.

He is NO LONGER performing surgery but that does not mean he didn't perform heart surgery.  He did.  A lot.

I think that you will find that Gerry is not a heart surgeon.  He is a cardiologist, a physician

During his training he may well have performed surgery but usually that is not the case after specializing in Cardiology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiology

Cardiology (from Greek καρδίᾱ, kardiā, "heart"; and -λογία, -logia) is a medical specialty dealing with disorders of the heart be it human or animal. The field includes medical diagnosis and treatment of congenital heart defects, coronary artery disease, heart failure, valvular heart disease and electrophysiology. Physicians who specialize in this field of medicine are called cardiologists. Physicians who specialize in cardiac surgery are called cardiac surgeons.


I am very prepared to be proven wrong with this, but I think you will find that I am correct

[Anna]

Dr GP McCann

http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/cardiovascular-sciences/people/mccann

[pegasus]

Accepting that Amaral answered an english language question with a portuguese language answer, I however think it was incompetent of the BBC (a worldwide broadcaster in hundreds of languages) to proceed with broadcasting their false allegation with their only check being to ask probably 5 or 6 staff who do not even understand spoken portuguese.

[sadie]

Dr GP McCann

http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/cardiovascular-sciences/people/mccann

Thank you Anna, that proves it

If he had been a surgeon he would have been called MISTER,  not DOCTOR.

Gerry is a Physician, NOT a Surgeon.


Another myth busted.  Well done Anna.

[Benice]

Why can't you just acknowledge that Amaral's words were mistranslated,  and that he was 'reviled'  in the British press for a phrase he had never used  ? 

Is it only the McCanns who are permitted to play the  'lost in translation'  card  ?

You are missing the point.   No translation took place as it did not occur to the reporter that translation was necessary because he thought Amaral was replying in English.    That is a unique situation IMO.       There is nothing in that scenario to compare with anything to do with translation in the McCann case files.   None of their replies or those of their friends were ever mistakenly thought to be in Portuguese.

[Benice]

Accepting that Amaral answered an english language question with a portuguese language answer, I however think it was incompetent of the BBC (a worldwide broadcaster in hundreds of languages) to proceed with broadcasting their false allegation with their only check being to ask probably 5 or 6 staff who do not even understand spoken portuguese.

I take your point Pegasus but a case of 'hindsight is a wonderful thing' IMO.

[icabodcrane]

You are missing the point.   No translation took place as it did not occur to the reporter that translation was necessary because he thought Amaral was replying in English.    That is a unique situation IMO.       There is nothing in that scenario to compare with anything to do with translation in the McCann case files.   None of their replies or those of their friends were ever mistakenly thought to be in Portuguese.

Not unique at all, as it happens 

From Kate's book  (  page 126  )   

"By the Sunday evening,  we found ourselves giving our statements again,  this time to a couple of detectives from  Control Risks.  We were concerned that parts of the statements we had made to the Portuguese police,  especially on the first day,  might have been lost in translation.  We also felt that these accounts were not sufficiently thorough and wanted to have every detail we could remember registered properly. Unfortunately,  in our haste to pass the new statements to the PJ ,  we made the mistake of assuming that the transcripts would be correct and discovered only many months later that these, too,  contained inaccuracies.   And they had been given in English !"

So,  these detectives from Control Risks  were speaking in English to the MccCanns,  and the McCanns were replying in English 

What was the misunderstanding there then  ?   ....  how did those  'inaccuracies'  Kate speaks of,  come about  ?

[Benice]

Not unique at all, as it happens 

From Kate's book  (  page 126  )   

"By the Sunday evening,  we found ourselves giving our statements again,  this time to a couple of detectives from  Control Risks.  We were concerned that parts of the statements we had made to the Portuguese police,  especially on the first day,  might have been lost in translation.  We also felt that these accounts were not sufficiently thorough and wanted to have every detail we could remember registered properly. Unfortunately,  in our haste to pass the new statements to the PJ ,  we made the mistake of assuming that the transcripts would be correct and discovered only many months later that these, too,  contained inaccuracies.   And they had been given in English !"

So,  these detectives from Control Risks  were speaking in English to the MccCanns,  and the McCanns were replying in English 

What was the misunderstanding there then  ?   ....  how did those  'inaccuaries'  Kate speaks of,  come about  ?

My point was that the Reporter thought Amaral was replying in English.

At no time did the PJ think the McCanns or their friends were replying in Portuguese and made mistakes because of such a misunderstanding.

There is no comparison between that scenario and the one you quote above imo.

[icabodcrane]

My point was that the Reporter thought Amaral was replying in English.

At no time did the PJ think the McCanns or their friends were replying in Portuguese and made mistakes because of such a misunderstanding.

There is no comparison between that scenario and the one you quote above imo.

Well,  'comparisons'  aside,  would you care to offer an opinion on the inaccuracies   in the statements  (  made  in English  )  that Kate refers to  ?

How might that have happened,  do you think,  where no  'translation'  issue'  existed  ? 

I think it is very relevant to this thread

[pegasus]

I take your point Pegasus but a case of 'hindsight is a wonderful thing' IMO.

It is lack of foresight (foresight defined as BBC executive ensuring that the reporter sent to Lisbon and at least one person in production actually understand a little basic portuguese).

[Benice]

Well,  'comparisons'  aside,  would you care to offer an opinion on the inaccuracies   in the statements  (  made  in English  )  that Kate refers to  ?

How might that have happened,  do you think,  where no  'translation'  issue'  existed  ? 

I think it is very relevant to this thread

I think mistakes can happen - unless the person making the statement is actually writing it out themselves - especially if no tape is involved - only notes which are then transcribed by others.

[icabodcrane]

I think mistakes can happen - unless the person making the statement is actually writing it out themselves - especially if no tape is involved - only notes which are then transcribed by others.

These were statements,  given by the McCanns  to detectives from Control Risks   (  privately employed  )  with the intention of passing them on to the Portuguese police

StatementS  given in English  ...  to English speakers  ...  that must  surely  have been read,  verified,  aNd signed by the McCanns before Control Risks   (  being privately paid )   would  even  consider  passing  them on to the  'real' police

And yet,  Kate,  in her book,  claims that there were   'inaccuracies'   in those statements  (  given to people who were being  paid  to represent  her and Gerry   )     ...  and necessarily read and signed by the McCanns themselves  (  not much point in a statement that  isn't  signed,  afterall  )

How did that happen then  ?   

[Cariad]

On the other hand Pegasus when you ask a person a question in English - and that question is answered without hesitation using what sounds very much like English words - it seems reasonable enough to assume that the reply was actually in English.    It was a genuine and understandable mistake IMO.

For someone who IIRC we have been told in the past does not speak English - he certainly had no difficulty in understanding the question.
 

If you asked me if I spoke welsh, I'd say no, however I understand a hell of a lot more than I can speak. I can usually get the gist of something, but I couldn't reply in Welsh. Understanding and speaking a language is really quite different, mostly because of sentence formation.

[Cariad]

FOR THE FINAL TIME - GERRY MCCANN WAS A HEART SURGEON.

It is a prerequisite of entry to the Training for the specialisation.

NO CARDIOLOGIST goes straight from veruca warts to cardiology.  How insane.

He is NO LONGER performing surgery but that does not mean he didn't perform heart surgery.  He did.  A lot.

A cardiologist is not a surgeon. I don't know if this is a difference in British and Australian (?) healthcare, but cardiologists treat heat conditions medically. They diagnose. A surgeon will only preform surgery.

Here you study medicine in general and then specialize. A cardiologist will know everything about how the heart functions, but would not be expected to put it back together again. A surgeon would be able to 'fix' a heart, but wouldn't be expected to be able to diagnose.

Surgeons are the specialists of specialists, so to speak. They are at the top of their pay scale and don't do anything else.