Was Mr Smiths claim just pie in the sky after all?

[Martina]

Has it escaped everyone's attention that Jose Mourinho used his laundry cart trick only a matter of days before Madeleine went missing?  Madeleine could have been whisked out of the apartment, up the stairs & into a cart in a matter of seconds.

Unlike Mourinho Maddie was not a willing participant, so she would have to be drugged (to prevent her waking up and screaming), or dead. And the perpetrator would have to use the unlocked patio door, or to be in the possesion of the apartment key.

It's so simple, while everyone argues over the dodging & weaving of non-existene Smithman.

How do you know the Smithman does not exist?

How does that apartment join to the next block along- is the corridor continuous?

As far as I know there are two separate buildings. And what corridor are you talking about?

[pegasus]

Has it escaped everyone's attention that Jose Mourinho used his laundry cart trick only a matter of days before Madeleine went missing?

The Champions League semi-finals (second-legs) were 1 and 2 May 2007 IIRC?
I thought the laundry trick was on an earlier date?

How does that apartment join to the next block along- is the corridor continuous?

The two blocks are not joined internally, but outside you can from the carpark of block 5 walk up a few steps to the carpark of block 4.
 

[misty]

Unlike Mourinho Maddie was not a willing participant, so she would have to be drugged (to prevent her waking up and screaming), or dead. And the perpetrator would have to use the unlocked patio door, or to be in the possesion of the apartment key.

How do you know the Smithman does not exist?

As far as I know there are two separate buildings. And what corridor are you talking about?

Madeleine was chloroformed, as were the twins. The perps had the key to the front door (the keys were available in the laundry store room).
Smithman was fabricated to divert attention from the third arguido (Tannerman was an unfortunate blip in the plan). The CCTV at Estrela da Luz was wiped not because it showed Smithman, but because it didn't show Smithman.
I'm asking about the landing/corridors on levels 2 & 3 as I can't tell from the photos - are they linked to the next block along so the cleaning staff can access more easily?

[pegasus]

... landing/corridors on levels 2 & 3 ... are they linked to the next block along ...?

No

[misty]

The Champions League semi-finals (second-legs) were 1 and 2 May 2007 IIRC?
I thought the laundry trick was on an earlier date?The two blocks are not joined internally, but outside you can from the carpark of block 5 walk up a few steps to the carpark of block 4.

Sorry, my mistake, the story broke 24/4/2007
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=jose%20mourinho%20and%20the%20laundry%20basket&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2F508849%2Fbanned-jose-hid-in-dirty-laundry-basket&ei=tcV7U-CxHMWI7AaZwoHAAQ&usg=AFQjCNGZCtGCaiNOg0SiPet196m3b8rSnQ&bvm=bv.67229260,d.ZGU&cad=rja

[Martina]

Smithman was fabricated to divert attention from the third arguido (Tannerman was an unfortunate blip in the plan).

The fabrication of the Smithman assumes that the Smiths were somehow in the cahoots with the kidnapers. Why would do that? and who is this third arguido? Murat?

I'm asking about the landing/corridors on levels 2 & 3 as I can't tell from the photos - are they linked to the next block along so the cleaning staff can access more easily?

These blocks were not built for the Mark Warner, not even all of flats are rented by MW, there are some private apartments in there (i.e. Mrs. Fenn) so I don't think, that the landings are linked.

[Wonderfulspam]

Madeleine was chloroformed, as were the twins. The perps had the key to the front door (the keys were available in the laundry store room).
Smithman was fabricated to divert attention from the third arguido (Tannerman was an unfortunate blip in the plan). The CCTV at Estrela da Luz was wiped not because it showed Smithman, but because it didn't show Smithman.
I'm asking about the landing/corridors on levels 2 & 3 as I can't tell from the photos - are they linked to the next block along so the cleaning staff can access more easily?

I also believe that the perpetrator(s) possesed a key & had some experience in anaesthetics.

[pegasus]

Has it escaped everyone's attention that Jose Mourinho used his laundry cart trick only a matter of days before Madeleine went missing?  Madeleine could have been whisked out of the apartment, up the stairs & into a cart in a matter of seconds. It's so simple, while everyone argues over the dodging & weaving of non-existene Smithman.
How does that apartment join to the next block along- is the corridor continuous?

So do you think its possible something was removed concealed with the laundry?

[misty]

So do you think its possible something was removed concealed with the laundry?

There are many possibilities. I just link the laundry man, the keys, the possible use of 5J, the concealment of a drugged child in dirty laundry to mask her scent, and many anomalies with the statements of the 3rd arguido & his
apparent familiarity with police officers in a country he had barely lived in for 16 years. The timing of Smithman identifying Gerry was uncanny- after all other means to gain a confession from the parents had failed.
But that's just my opinion. Only one person jumped when the dig was announced.

[Martina]

and many anomalies with the statements of the 3rd arguido & his
apparent familiarity with police officers in a country he had barely lived in for 16 years.

What anomalies do you mean?

[misty]

What anomalies do you mean?

There are too many to list & I would become downright libellous if I wrote every item that bothered me on here.
But I am concerned about someone who washed a car the day before the PJ descended on his house with the sniffer dogs. I am concerned about a man who was drinking with a PJ inspector the night before he was going to make his statement as an arguido. I am concerned about a man whose g/f was worried he might "lose control" in that interview.
But that's just my opinion.

[pegasus]

There are many possibilities. I just link the laundry man, the keys, the possible use of 5J, the concealment of a drugged child in dirty laundry to mask her scent, and many anomalies with the statements of the 3rd arguido & his
apparent familiarity with police officers in a country he had barely lived in for 16 years. The timing of Smithman identifying Gerry was uncanny- after all other means to gain a confession from the parents had failed.
But that's just my opinion. Only one person jumped when the dig was announced.

IMO the identifications by witnesses Smith and McClusky, both based on the same TV footage, and both 4 months after their sightings, are simply two cases of mistaken identification by the transference phenomenon, not deliberate plotting of any kind.
But yes it makes sense that a perp would prefer to move something away from the crime scene in a concealed state, meaning inside some container along with something that it would be normal to remove. So even if there were onlookers they would not bat an eyelid.

[Brietta]

IMO the identifications by witnesses Smith and McClusky, both based on the same TV footage, and both 4 months after their sightings, are simply two cases of mistaken identification by the transference phenomenon, not deliberate plotting of any kind.
But yes it makes sense that a perp would prefer to move something away from the crime scene in a concealed state, meaning inside some container along with something that it would be normal to remove. So even if there were onlookers they would not bat an eyelid.

I agree with the transference phenomenon given the coverage the Drs McCann and Madeleine were being given by the media.  I think it encouraged a false memory syndrome which in conjunction with actual events became etched in the witnesses recall of events.
Studies have shown that memory is very fragile and malleable.

I also agree the perpetrator would prefer to move the child surreptitiously rather than carrying her openly.  I think concealment in a laundry basket is one option.  I think it is possible that initial concealment might have been in apartment 5J until an opportunity presented itself to make the move.

That scenario would imply a planned abduction rather than something which just happened ~ if she were drugged.

On the other hand ~ when one thinks of the trail followed by the GNR dogs ~ could Madeleine have walked hand in hand with her abductor to 5J ~ and the dogs later followed the perpetrator's scent to the car park where it was lost?

[pathfinder73]

Your hypothesis IIRC did not feature anything being hidden in that wasteland at all. The place you suggested was outside its perimeter, and why would someone would choose the risky place you suggest, and reject a less risky place feet away?
 

I don't think he chucked the body over the fence and climbed over. This was only a temporary hiding place. My first thought was in a bag to bin (see below) situated in a quiet spot north west of perimeter fence but why take the body back out unless you thought she was going to be found. Those bushes are another possibility in that same area.



There are gaps to possibly get underneath the fence by the bin that I suspected. This north end of the wasteland is the main part to search IMO.

[pegasus]

I don't think he chucked the body over the fence and climbed over. This was only a temporary hiding place. My first thought was in bag to bin situated in a quiet spot north west of perimeter fence but why take it back out unless you thought she was going to be found. Bushes are another possibility in that same area.

Based on some 2009 photos of same panel fence climbing over would have been unnecessary as there were some big enough gaps under (here assuming no rebuild/lowering of pavements in the meantime).