Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?

[ShiningInLuz]

Glad the weather improved enough to enable you to get out for a stroll.

With reference to the balconies around the eastern stairwell which give a good view of the front of block 5 ... what height are the trees?

I saw an image taken from a Sky News report at the time and the presenter was standing with the perimeter wall and the overhanging trees in the background and they looked pretty dense and I think they would have obstructed that view.

Unfortunately, I neither copied it nor marked it but I have attached a photograph showing the height of the trees in 2007.

Excellent point and excellent question.

Particularly as I totally forgot those trees have been chopped down so the current view is not the same as the May 2007 view and that alters things quite a bit.

Most trees here, including deciduous trees, do NOT shed leaves in winter.  The weather is too clement.  Most rain here is in winter, so by end April/start May most trees have a lot of leaves, grown before a very dry summer.

The trees affect everything I said about the car park and the car park entrance.  These would be much more obscure, although the view in the street beside 5A would not.

The eastern public balconies of block 6 have a very odd view.  A very slim view of the front of 5A, but not the front of 5B, 5C or 5D.  There was a gap between the tree nearest to 5A and 5A itself, and that is the very bit you can see from the public balconies leading from the eastern stairwell.

Or in summary, those eastern balconies are a very poor candidate for monitoring 5A, though it could be done.

They simply do not fit with the thread concept - smoking girl sees Gerry/Jes.  That bit is impossible.

[faithlilly]

Not at all, I'm simply curious to know why, when presented with a golden opportunity to present us with your highly logical and plausible theory (and after badgering me incessantly to poke holes in it) that you would now rather not discuss it.  It makes me think that maybe you don't really have the courage of your convictions?

Jeez you have me sussed Alfie.

Now shall we move on ?

[Alfred R Jones]

Jeez you have me sussed Alfie.

Now shall we move on ?

Sure, but thanks for confirming what I had already suspected.

[ShiningInLuz]

Could I ask another question? I have often wondered about a statement relating to block 6. The witness says her boyfriend's sister lives in apartment 5, on the ground floor facing G5A.

On 3rd May she and her boyfriend left his sister's apartment at 10pm.

After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm

There was some discussion about the 'front' and 'back' of Block 5 when the rogatory statements were taken. This witness must be referring to the front of Block 6 as the area to the south, opposite the Tapas entrance. Otherwise they wouldn't have passed the McCanns apartment if they went right then left. Do you agree? Interestingly they saw nothing at 10pm.

The flat facing 5A is block 6, apartment 5.

"After leaving block 6"  The car park is 'south' of the two roads around block 5.  It is north of the Tapas entrance.  Out of the car park at block six, turn right and about 5m up, turn left in front of 5A.

The statement makes sense.  Out of the car park, north of block 6, turn right to get to the junction, turn left to go across the front of 5A.

And she saw the lights in in Patricia Fenn's apartment.

[G-Unit]

The flat facing 5A is block 6, apartment 5.

"After leaving block 6"  The car park is 'south' of the two roads around block 5.  It is north of the Tapas entrance.  Out of the car park at block six, turn right and about 5m up, turn left in front of 5A.

The statement makes sense.  Out of the car park, north of block 6, turn right to get to the junction, turn left to go across the front of 5A.

And she saw the lights in in Patricia Fenn's apartment.

Thank you! It's great having someone on the ground, I get lost on Google maps a lot. Pity they weren't looking out of their window that evening is all I can say. One funny thing. Stephen Carpenter said there were cars parked on his left when he was crossing the road. I'm sure I've read that Jane Tanner said there were none when she saw Gerald McCann talking to Jeremy Wilkins. I must check that later. (Not an easy job). I think two employees said they parked there, I will check that too. I wonder which apartment in Block 6 Stephen C was given on his last day?
That would tell us which balcony he was likely to be on.

[pathfinder73]

I'm aware of that (with a curious half-hearted woof and mumbles of coming back the next day). It was late and poor Eddie may have been hot and tired, but no forensic evidence was found. No synthetic fibres, no blood... no anything.

We request the examination of the samples collected from the garden wall with the aim of carrying out the “search and identification of eventual fibres and their comparison with the two parts of the pyjamas similar to those the girl was wearing when she disappeared”.

Processos Vol XIII
Pages 3483 to 3487

[Brietta]

We request the examination of the samples collected from the garden wall with the aim of carrying out the “search and identification of eventual fibres and their comparison with the two parts of the pyjamas similar to those the girl was wearing when she disappeared”.

Processos Vol XIII
Pages 3483 to 3487

The request for forensic examination is not of as great consequence as the result acquired.


Processos Vol XIII

Pages 3483 to 3487

Forensic report Nº 200711800-FI

Requested by:: Portimao DIC

NUIPC 201-07 Galgs

Correspondence number: 3609 of 31st October 2007

Examination initiated : October 2007


CONCLUSION

The analysis of the samples collected from the garden wall of the apartment of the OC yielded the following results:

- No synthetic fibres compatible with the fibres received for comparison from the pyjamas were found.
- Numerous white cotton fibres were found. However, this result should not be considered to be significant, given that according to studies of distribution and persistence of textile fibres it should always be possible to find fibres of different types and colours on any surface, white cotton fibres being very common and without discriminatory parameters.
- In addition, the interval of time that has passed between the events being investigated and the collection of samples (out in the open air) means the existence of fibres from the date of the events is of very low probability.

Note: The material remains archived at the SPL.

Lisbon, 23rd November 2007

Signed

Superior Specialist Machado   Area Chief Monteiro

[ShiningInLuz]

Thank you! It's great having someone on the ground, I get lost on Google maps a lot. Pity they weren't looking out of their window that evening is all I can say. One funny thing. Stephen Carpenter said there were cars parked on his left when he was crossing the road. I'm sure I've read that Jane Tanner said there were none when she saw Gerald McCann talking to Jeremy Wilkins. I must check that later. (Not an easy job). I think two employees said they parked there, I will check that too. I wonder which apartment in Block 6 Stephen C was given on his last day?
That would tell us which balcony he was likely to be on.

If you are correct that they were visiting 605, an excellent place to monitor the Tapas bar up to the rear of 5A, then they have put themselves into the suspect box.  Right place, right time, car to whizz Madeleine away.

Parked cars? Standard.  I suspect this helps to explain the Tannerman sighting.

Irish girl smoking?  I am now of the opinion that this is a mix of - Aoife Smith, Tannerman or rather Jerry/Jes, and the butts. Aoife was in Estrela da Luz, which has nothing to do with the Ocean Club and is several hundred metres from block 6.  I am filing this in my red herrings folder.

As to block 6, the ground floor does not have public balconies.  So the candidates are 608/609 on the first floor and 612 on the second (sorry, didn't see if 611 shares that balcony).

[faithlilly]

Sure, but thanks for confirming what I had already suspected.

No problem 

[faithlilly]

The request for forensic examination is not of as great consequence as the result acquired.


Processos Vol XIII

Pages 3483 to 3487

Forensic report Nº 200711800-FI

Requested by:: Portimao DIC

NUIPC 201-07 Galgs

Correspondence number: 3609 of 31st October 2007

Examination initiated : October 2007


CONCLUSION

The analysis of the samples collected from the garden wall of the apartment of the OC yielded the following results:

- No synthetic fibres compatible with the fibres received for comparison from the pyjamas were found.
- Numerous white cotton fibres were found. However, this result should not be considered to be significant, given that according to studies of distribution and persistence of textile fibres it should always be possible to find fibres of different types and colours on any surface, white cotton fibres being very common and without discriminatory parameters.
- In addition, the interval of time that has passed between the events being investigated and the collection of samples (out in the open air) means the existence of fibres from the date of the events is of very low probability.

Note: The material remains archived at the SPL.

Lisbon, 23rd November 2007

Signed

Superior Specialist Machado   Area Chief Monteiro

Further we only have the McCann's word that Madeleine was even wearing the pyjamas publicised when she disappeared.

[G-Unit]

If you are correct that they were visiting 605, an excellent place to monitor the Tapas bar up to the rear of 5A, then they have put themselves into the suspect box.  Right place, right time, car to whizz Madeleine away.

Parked cars? Standard.  I suspect this helps to explain the Tannerman sighting.

Irish girl smoking?  I am now of the opinion that this is a mix of - Aoife Smith, Tannerman or rather Jerry/Jes, and the butts. Aoife was in Estrela da Luz, which has nothing to do with the Ocean Club and is several hundred metres from block 6.  I am filing this in my red herrings folder.

As to block 6, the ground floor does not have public balconies.  So the candidates are 608/609 on the first floor and 612 on the second (sorry, didn't see if 611 shares that balcony).

I have just read her statement again and I am wondering why she made one. I wonder if she volunteered to give it
because she saw the grey car; she saw nothing else. She has put them there, with a view and a destination for Tannerman if you think about it! She has also put the alarm raising to just after 10pm as there was no-one around when they passed G5A.

As 605 is residential 609 and 612 may be also. None of them were rented out that week as far as I can see.

[ShiningInLuz]

I have just read her statement again and I am wondering why she made one. I wonder if she volunteered to give it
because she saw the grey car; she saw nothing else. She has put them there, with a view and a destination for Tannerman if you think about it! She has also put the alarm raising to just after 10pm as there was no-one around when they passed G5A.

As 605 is residential 609 and 612 may be also. None of them were rented out that week as far as I can see.

Yesterday, the shutters were down on everything I surveyed.  Shutters down + mid-day = occupants out or more likely at this time of the year, no occupants.  605, 609 and 612 had shutters down.  Take your pick of out or no occupants.

All of these are odd if they were residential.  It suggests they have changed hands, and that is unlikely. 

Luz is a ghost town.  People own holiday properties here that are only occupied for a month or two per year.  Without all the records for the Tapas and Millennium I would be guessing at what was going on with people in block 6.

For the moment, we have suspects with a good view of 5A rear, and a car.  In the vicinity, at the right time.  Surely it must be time to swoop?

PS I've just run Barrington Norton through the abduction grinder at ShiningInLuz, and despite some superficial attractions, I came up with significant barriers.  Your 605 chappies may well not face those barriers.

[G-Unit]

Yesterday, the shutters were down on everything I surveyed.  Shutters down + mid-day = occupants out or more likely at this time of the year, no occupants.  605, 609 and 612 had shutters down.  Take your pick of out or no occupants.

All of these are odd if they were residential.  It suggests they have changed hands, and that is unlikely. 

Luz is a ghost town.  People own holiday properties here that are only occupied for a month or two per year.  Without all the records for the Tapas and Millennium I would be guessing at what was going on with people in block 6.

For the moment, we have suspects with a good view of 5A rear, and a car.  In the vicinity, at the right time.  Surely it must be time to swoop?

PS I've just run Barrington Norton through the abduction grinder at ShiningInLuz, and despite some superficial attractions, I came up with significant barriers.  Your 605 chappies may well not face those barriers.

I'll go through all the records to see who exactly was in Block 6 (or not). The blocks were mixed with holiday apartments and residential - block 5 was. Why do you think it strange that block 6 may have been mixed at the time?

I still can't decide why  this statement exists. The police may have knocked on nearby doors to see if anyone saw anything and the occupant of 605 mentioned that this couple left at 10pm and gave them their contact details. Alternatively she came forward; but she didn't have any information to give really? Another (faint) possibility is that it's the 'getting close to the action' syndrome - something Robert Murat was accused of, where the guilty party can't resist attracting attention. Another thing is that I remember Kate McCann on the morning of the 4th saying to the social worker;  'Why would a couple take Madeleine'. Meanwhile, you swoop - you're nearer than me lol.

[Brietta]

Further we only have the McCann's word that Madeleine was even wearing the pyjamas publicised when she disappeared.

Oh absolutely ... I had totally forgotten that every statement in the files is absolute gospel ... apart from those made by one or two persons of your choice ... silly me!

[Alfred R Jones]

Oh absolutely ... I had totally forgotten that every statement in the files is absolute gospel ... apart from those made by one or two persons of your choice ... silly me!

Faithlilly also believe Gerry was the only one telling the truth when he said in one of his statements that Kate raised the alarm at 10.15 - because of course he would do that to allow Faithlilly and her pals to believe he was somewhere else at 10pm.