Author Topic: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?  (Read 86386 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #285 on: April 01, 2015, 12:22:15 PM »
Didn't she ? How are we to know ?

No one knows. It's easy to say I looked out the window after knowing my finger prints were found. This book was released years after it happened. Police will have to go from their initial statements not their version written years after the fact and covering every possible angle.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 12:25:12 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #286 on: April 01, 2015, 12:24:53 PM »
Isn't he ? Then maybe that's why Kate felt safe to misrepresent Tanner's identification in her book.

That glides over why she wasn't asked to make a statement to that effect, if she had. Amaral would have been preparing the bow on his package for the judge if she had, with a retroactive rubber stamp on it.

According to Amaral's version, Jane was also at the confrontation, which she wasn't.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #287 on: April 01, 2015, 12:26:01 PM »
Didn't she ? How are we to know ?

What?

You mean you just assumed she did without evidence?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #288 on: April 01, 2015, 12:30:40 PM »
What?

You mean you just assumed she did without evidence?

Tannerman is still on their website so he is very important to the McCanns. The alleged moving door connects to him. Who cares if the yard have found him  @)(++(*
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #289 on: April 01, 2015, 12:41:05 PM »
Tannerman is still on their website so he is very important to the McCanns. The alleged moving door connects to him. Who cares if the yard have found him  @)(++(*

Together with an explanation of why ...

Offline Carana

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #290 on: April 01, 2015, 12:41:42 PM »
No one knows. It's easy to say I looked out the window after knowing my finger prints were found. This book was released years after it happened. Police will have to go from their initial statements not their version written years after the fact and covering every possible angle.

How would she have known that her fingerprints had been found on that window back then?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #291 on: April 01, 2015, 12:43:57 PM »
How would she have known that her fingerprints had been found on that window back then?

The book was released in 2011.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #292 on: April 01, 2015, 12:46:05 PM »
Together with an explanation of why ...

If the abductor is Tannerman then it can't be Gerry as Smithman because he was with Jez Wilkins at the time of that sighting. His alibi is sorted. Tannerman will stay on their website until the bitter end.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #293 on: April 01, 2015, 01:15:39 PM »
The book was released in 2011.

I know that, but where does Amaral get this from in one of his interviews (with Moita Flores)?

If he was so sure of catching her out on the window issue, why wasn't it even an arguido question (i.e. during his tenure)?



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id173.html

"The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them"

Moita Flores interviews Gonçalo Amaral TV Guia (no online link, appears in paper edition only)
 
Interview: 02 October 2008, Published: Saturday 18 October 2008
Thanks to 'astro' for translation


GA – The window made me doubt. And not only that.

MF – But I do insist on the window. The mother said that she never touched it.

GA – That she never even opened it.

MF – Now, when I read the process, I realized that her fingerprints were on it. And positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement.

GA – It was with that, with Kate’s fingerprints on the window that I wanted to catch them.

MF – That’s the truth of the lie.

GA – Among other things. It was one of the best games that I ever saw played out, to divert attention from what really happened in the apartment. The manner in which they “worked” for the Smith was brilliant.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #294 on: April 01, 2015, 01:27:34 PM »

Amaral thinks that everyone is as delusional and manipulative as he is.  This is a common character fault among some.

Offline Benice

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #295 on: April 01, 2015, 01:27:57 PM »
"I dashed over to the second bed, on the other side of the travel cots where the twins slept on, oblivious, and looked out through the window."

That covers the finger prints. No mention of doing this in her statement.

"At 9.30pm I stood up to go and make our second check. Almost simultaneously, Matt got to his feet to see to Grace."

Matt left at 9:25 not 9:30

"At 10pm I went back to the apartment myself"

Matt said it was 9:50 when she left

The 30 minute checks add up to 10pm. This is not rocket science!

What has this got to do with Amarals's lie about JT identifying Murat?

How many times has it got to be pointed out that different people have different perceptions of time and distance and different levels of the power of recall.    The differences you quote above- for example 5 minutes -  would be regarded as perfectly normal by the police.   They don't expect perfect accuracy.    Neither do they expect different people describing the same incident -  all to give the same account.


Quote from DC Ferguson (JT's rogatory statement)

4078    “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”.
Unquote.

Why do you find that so difficult to understand?

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #296 on: April 01, 2015, 02:13:07 PM »
What has this got to do with Amarals's lie about JT identifying Murat?

How many times has it got to be pointed out that different people have different perceptions of time and distance and different levels of the power of recall.    The differences you quote above- for example 5 minutes -  would be regarded as perfectly normal by the police.   They don't expect perfect accuracy.    Neither do they expect different people describing the same incident -  all to give the same account.


Quote from DC Ferguson (JT's rogatory statement)

4078    “You know, we can take a statement from people, if an incident happened outside and there was a group of people watching it, everybody would have a different take on what they had seen”.
Unquote.

Why do you find that so difficult to understand?

Their job is to be precise.

"The careful and critical analysis of the timeline has been absolutely key." DCI Redwood
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #297 on: April 01, 2015, 02:21:18 PM »
Amaral thinks that everyone is as delusional and manipulative as he is.  This is a common character fault among some.

Quite aside from the fact that it was Moita Flores (not Amaral) who conveniently said:


MF – Now, when I read the process, I realised that her fingerprints were on it. And positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement.

GA – It was with that, with Kate's fingerprints on the window that I wanted to catch them.

MF – That's the truth of the lie.


The PT forensic report makes no such assertion. I've already posted about that on another thread.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #298 on: April 01, 2015, 02:30:21 PM »
FINGERPRINTS ON THE WINDOW

One afternoon, we drive to apartment 5A at the Ocean Club. I am accompanied by Guilhermino Encarnação, the indefatigable Polícia Judiciária Director from Faro, who is following every step of the investigation, with daily trips to Portimão. José Freitas of Scotland Yard is accompanied by Stuart Prior, to whom we explain the theory of an accident. According to Encarnação, the child's death must have resulted from a fall behind the sofa, where the dogs marked the odours of cadaver and blood. The theory is simple and based on evidence in our possession. The parents would have pushed the sofa away from the window as a safety precaution because the window opened easily and it was situated, remember, three metres above the outside pavement. When Gerald went to the apartment at around 9pm to check on his children, used the toilet and then left, Madeleine might have woken up. Hearing her father's voice coming from the street outside, she may have tried to reach the window by climbing on the sofa and could have fallen behind it. Stuart indicates that he understands and agrees with the possibility. He takes this opportunity to ask if any fingerprints were found on that window or on any others, particularly on the one in Madeleine's bedroom.

Initially, we don't understand why he is asking this question, since he has seen our report. He should know that fingerprints were discovered with the lophoscopic* analysis carried out on the night of May 3rd and the following day. The results are in the report. Why is he asking about them now? We respond evasively, "Nothing conclusive."

However, on the glass, on the handle and on the right-hand frame of Madeleine's bedroom window, we had lifted five fingerprints - three from a middle finger and two from an index finger - all from a left hand, identified as belonging to Kate McCann.

The technicians who examined the apartment did not place any great importance on the identification of the fingerprints. In fact, in the absence of obvious signs of assault or of a crime - like signs of a struggle, traces of blood or the presence of a corpse -, the technicians proceed to the kind of examination that is carried out in a burglary case. They forget that fingerprints discovered in a particular place, even if they belong to an occupant of the premises, can be of fundamental importance for the progress of the investigation and constitute valuable evidence, even material proof.

The window in question is the one that Kate Healy states she found open to the left, with the curtains fluttering, when she discovered that her daughter was missing. On the window, there were no signs of a break-in or of gloves. It had been cleaned the day before, May 2nd, by an Ocean Club employee, and the only fingerprints found were Kate's. The position of the fingerprints indicate that the window had been opened to the left, as Kate Healy stated: "the window was fully open to the left." There is no doubt that somebody opened that window on the evening of May 3rd and the only fingerprints found on it were those of Kate Healy. The manager of the Ocean Club's crèche, who went to the apartment after the alarm was raised, remarked that, "the window was partially open to the left," confirming Kate's earlier statement.

We prefer not to discuss this with Stuart Prior: we have the impression that he is only here to accompany the McCanns' interrogations and to prevent their detention. His concern on that subject is obvious.  (TOTL)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?
« Reply #299 on: April 01, 2015, 04:48:19 PM »
Amaral thinks that everyone is as delusional and manipulative as he is.  This is a common character fault among some.

And how do you know the McCanns are not ?

Long serving police seem to develop an instinct for knowing a wrong un when the see one.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?