Author Topic: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.  (Read 95542 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2014, 08:01:15 PM »
Patio door could only be locked from the inside  - and not accessed from outside if locked. Is this right?

That means that anyone wanting to enter the apartment illegally would be likely to attempt to do so via the front door.

That is correct SH. Unless of course it was a worker at the club who new the patio door was open and even then it would be risky. No it would be the main front door with someone near the Tapas bar to alert them by phone, if the parents were returning. There was only a short gap at the start of the evening when parents weren't back and forth.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

icabodcrane

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Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2014, 08:01:45 PM »
I will return to the question of the visitors themselves shortly, icabod. Would like to try to find out a little more about them.

Generally speaking, it is possible that someone died in that apartment at some point, isn't it?

Apart from  the  little girl who was last seen alive there,  before disappearing  without trace, you mean  ? 


Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2014, 08:06:30 PM »
Witness statement, for reference, of occupant C. Francisco D'Ambrosio, who along with his wife occupied the apartment from April 14th 2007 for one week.

Cartas Rogatorias Vol V

Pages 42 – 43


LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE SQUAD

WITNESS TESTIMONY OF CARLO FRANCISO D'AMBROSIO

Occupation: Hair Dresser

This statement, consisting of three pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have willfully states in it anything I know to be false or do not believe to be true.

Date: 29 April 2008
Signature:

I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to this police.

On the 14th of April of 2007, in the company of my partner, June HUGHES, we travelled from Glasgow airport to Portugal for a one week holiday.

We effected the reservation with the Thomas Cook travel agency; a week of holidays in the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz.
Even though we did not have problems during out holidays, I felt a bit vulnerable with the possibility of a break-in given the location of the apartment. For this reason, we would keep the blinds closed every time we left the apartment.

On our first night I noticed that the principal room (in front of the pool and the Tapas bar) was completely exposed and communicated this problem to the reception. (Page 1) To our satisfaction the blinds were fixed the next day.

I was not aware of any locking system for the blinds that covered the front, back and side windows. It did not appear possible to use a lock and would close on its own as a result of its weight. In order to open it, you needed to use the interior belt system.
I verified that all the blinds worked correctly.

We would always enter and leave the apartment through the main door with gave way to the parking area and the street. We did not use the pool-side doors as it was not possible to close them from the outside. It was get very dark outside our door and that left us a bit scared. The darkness was due to a faulty/wasted bulb.

It was only myself and June in the apartment and for this reason we did not have any contact with the Creche or child services. We only breakfasted in the apartment and would dine always outside the resort. We never used any restaurants in the Ocean Club.

In response to the question asked of me by the Portuguese Police I can affirm that nobody got hurt or died in the apartment during our stay.

We were not victims of any break-in (page 2). According to what I know, there was no presence of strangers, inside or outside the apartment. The only people in the immediate areas of the apartment were the gardeners, whom I saw three times during the week and the cleaning woman who would come every day.

We noticed that the cleaning personnel entered the apartment after one knock and did not give us time to respond. This was a bit bothersome and for this reason we would lock the door, and would leave the key in the inside lock.

After this precaution, the next day, the same thing happened and the cleaning woman entered even though the door was locked with the key in the lock.

We never found out how it was possible for a cleaning woman to enter after we had tried to prevent it.
[/i]

I can tell you that the living room sofa (to the right when on entered via the patio door) was positioned about 60 cm away from the wall.

I give the police a CD with photographs taken in the space and the resort during our stay between the 14th of April and the 21st of April of 2007. I have produced this marked as C.F.D.1.

This statement was elaborated by my and in truthful in accordance with my understanding.

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« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 08:19:27 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2014, 08:10:16 PM »
Apart from  the  little girl who was last seen alive there,  before disappearing  without trace, you mean  ?

Technically, both. Madeleine could have died there, yes.

But being a property designed and located with holiday occupancy in mind, there must have been hundreds possibly thousands of people who used the place over the years. It is certainly possible that one (or more) of those people sustained a fatal injury whilst in the apartment or died in the apartment after being injured (or having took ill) elsewhere.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2014, 08:15:42 PM »
Statement of Occupant Clare Louise Fawkes who stayed in the apartment with her husband and daughter:


Cartas Rogatorias Vol V

Pages 44 - 46

Witness statement

FAWKES; Claire Louise

Occupation: Teacher

Date: 22 nd April 2008
Signature _________________________________________

I am the person referred to at the address above where I live with my husband S**** and daughter R*** aged 3 ½.

At Easter my family had two weeks holiday. I do not remember the exact date we travelled but I know it was a Saturday after Easter. We travelled to the OC, P da L in the Algarve in Portugal.

We had never stayed at a MW resort before but the facilities in relation to child care and sporting activities were attractive. We travelled from Gatwick to Faro and were transferred to the resort by MW reps. The holidays were booked as a complete package through MW.

Upon arrival we were allocated an apartment identified as G5 A or something similar. It was the corner apartment on the ground floor of a block of two or three storeys. Our apartment had two bedrooms and a patio with a door that opened onto the terrace opposite the swimming pool, restaurant and OC children’s playing area. The other entrance led onto the parking area.

During the holidays we would occasionally place R*** in the crèche when we were doing other activities. On the Wednesday or Thursday of the second week of our holiday I received a phone call from a MW employee saying that R*** had fallen in the crèche and had cut her chin. When I arrived at the club she had almost stopped bleeding, but even so and through precaution we took her to a doctor in P da L, who put in some stitches. I do not remember if she bled again after this or whether she did in the apartment, but it is a possibility. However nobody else injured themselves or died during the holiday.

I was not robbed during the holiday and none of our possessions disappeared. I never detected the presence of anyone strange near the apartment. R*** slept in the bedroom whose window looked over the parking area. It had a window which I think we never opened and a metal shutter that covered the entire window on the outside, but which was controlled from the inside of the bedroom either electronically or by a belt that was pulled. It was nearly always closed, but on occasions we would open it to have more light. As far as I can remember the shutter worked perfectly well. We never had a bad experience with the windows or doors.

In order to enter and leave the apartment we would always use the front door that led onto the parking area given that the patio door could only be locked from the inside.

When you entered into the living room from the patio, there was a coffee table opposite with a sofa parallel to the kitchen. I do not remember whether the sofa was pushed against the wall. I think there was sufficient space to pass behind the sofa and the dining table.

I made a sketch which I showed as proof to CLF and which I delivered to DC Wright. We did not move any of the furniture in the apartment.

As I have already said we travelled to Portugal with our daughter R*** who slept in the back bedroom, opposite the pool area. I used to refer to her bedroom as the lilac room because the bedclothes and curtains were lilac.

We would generally walk to the MW restaurant at a distance of 5 or 10 minutes to have breakfast. We would normally have lunch in the apartment.

During the first week of the holidays we would return to the same restaurant for dinner. I can’t remember what the restaurant was called. During the second week we would sometimes dine at the Tapas. My husband and I would have dinner out each night. While we were out we would hand Ruth over to the care of MW babysitters. The normal procedure was to dress her in pyjamas at about 19.00 and at 19.30 take her to the place near to the reception. Ruth would stay in the care of MW staff until they (children) were ready to sleep. If they were tired, there were beds available for the children to sleep in. We would collect R*** on out return to the apartment at about 21.30 – 22.00. This service was included in the holiday package and was available until 23.00.

We never left R*** on her own. When she was not with us she was in the organised care of someone who looked after the children.

On the Friday before our return home, my husband had gone to the beach leaving R*** and I in the apartment. The keys were also in the apartment but I couldn’t find them, so I felt unable to take R*** to the crèche.

I was worried and went to the terrace to see if I could spot S****. It was at this moment that I saw three road sweepers in the immediate area. They all appeared to be staring in my direction and I felt they were observing me. I had wondered whether to leave the apartment open whilst I took R*** to the crèche but from the moment that I felt observed, this idea lost its appeal. They were all men and wearing overalls that reminded me of surgical outfits. I do not remember anymore about them.

I handed a CD to DC 4064 HOLLIDAY on 15h45 of 22nd April 2008 containing some pictures of our holidays at the MW resort. It was referenced as CLF2.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 08:22:34 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline Anna

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2014, 08:18:53 PM »
Technically, both. Madeleine could have died there, yes.

But being a property designed and located with holiday occupancy in mind, there must have been hundreds possibly thousands of people who used the place over the years. It is certainly possible that one (or more) of those people sustained a fatal injury whilst in the apartment or died in the apartment after being injured (or having took ill) elsewhere.

According to Mrs Fenns neice ,Mrs Fenn lived there for a very long time, (I wonder if she died in her flat), so it is possible that someone at some time lived permanently in 5A. Did I read a witness statement from a young girl whose grandma lived there once? I will have a look.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2014, 08:20:42 PM »
Technically, both. Madeleine could have died there, yes.

But being a property designed and located with holiday occupancy in mind, there must have been hundreds possibly thousands of people who used the place over the years. It is certainly possible that one (or more) of those people sustained a fatal injury whilst in the apartment or died in the apartment after being injured (or having took ill) elsewhere.

From recollection, it has already been established, no ne had died in the apartment, prior to the events of the 3 rd May.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2014, 08:23:18 PM »
From recollection, it has already been established, no ne had died in the apartment, prior to the events of the 3 rd May.

How was this established?

Offline Anna

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2014, 08:25:54 PM »
Deposition of T. M. S., aged 12, a resident in Luz, on the 9th of May 2007, 4 p.m.
Page 800-804, volume III of process 201/07.0GALGS

"Comes to the process as a witness. Understands the Portuguese Language, as she has been living in Portugal since the age of two months (approximately eleven years ago). Still, an interpreter is present [name withheld].

Her parents are separated, she initially resided in Monchique, and now in Praia da Luz, since 2005, at the address that is stated above, with her Mother.

She also mentions that she lived in the apartment where the missing child was staying, that belonged to her Grandmother, who is already deceased. That she didn’t actually reside there, but spent extensive and repeated periods of time there, with her Grandmother and her Mother. The apartment was bought in 1994 and sold in 2002 and therefore she knows it perfectly, both from the inside and from the outside.

She wishes to clarify. On the 30th of April, Monday, at around 8 a.m. and when she was walking to the bus stop for the school bus that leaves at 8.15, a path that she walks every day when there is school, she noticed the presence of a male individual, at the back of Madeleine’s house, on a little pathway to the apartments that exists there, looking in an ostensive manner at the house’s balcony. This happened when she was walking down the street, on the left side, which was right in front of the balcony, and the distance between them was the width of the road. That when she was walking down she decided to look at the pathway, because as she lived there, she likes to watch the house and the neighbouring garden. She walked with her mother, that she is certain she didn’t see the man, and she was walking two dogs on a leash, which forced them to cross the road, a bit further down. At that moment she saw the man more closely, as they crossed the road, and then lost visual angle when they finished crossing.

Says that the man didn’t see the deponent, because he was staring at the balcony.

She presumes that nobody was on Madeleine’s house’s balcony, but she cannot state it beyond doubt.

After crossing, she caught the bus and went to school and her mother went on the beach to walk the dogs.

When she returned from school, at around 5.30/5.40 p.m., after leaving the bus, she walked a different path, because the bus has a stop on the street where she lives, and therefore she doesn’t need to walk down to the ‘Ocean Club’. She didn’t see the man again at that time, nor did she see him again until the 2nd of May, Wednesday, after the bank holiday.

That on that day she didn’t go to school because she was sick with an infection in her right ear. Still, and feeling somewhat better, at around noon she left on her own, as her mother was at work, with the dogs, and went to the ‘Alisuper’ supermarket which is located on a perpendicular to Rua Direita, where she bought chocolates for €3,63. Then she walked to the pharmacy, which is located below the ‘Baptista’ supermarket, on a lateral perspective, where she bought a box of tampons for her ears, to prevent water from getting in, and spent €4,55. Then she went to ‘Baptista’ supermarket to buy cereal bread, because they don’t sell it at ‘Alisuper’. She left the dogs tied at the back entrance of ‘Baptista’ and went in to buy the bread. She paid, left ‘Baptista’, collected the dogs, and walked across the supermarket’s hall to the main entrance, approximately four/five metres, which exits to the street where she had seen the man. She started walking up the street on the left side going up, and saw the man, this time in front of the ‘Ocean Club’s’ reception, once more looking at Madeleine’s house in an ostensive manner, where he stood he could observe, she thinks, the house’s two side windows and part of the balcony. She thinks that he could also be looking at the other residences that are located in the same direction.

That as she was walking up she walked right in front of the man, and observed him directly, an action that he did not retaliate, because he never looked at the deponent. The distance that she observed him from was the width of the road.

After walking by the individual, she walked towards her house, through the road to the right, and never looked back to the man, or turned around to observe him better.

After that day she never saw him again.

As she said before, she left home at 12 p.m. and returned at 12.35 p.m., which means she crossed with the man at around 12.25/12.28 (the rest of the walk takes about seven minutes).

On the next day, Thursday (03.05.2007) she walked the same path as on the 30th, at the same time, but didn’t see the man, and never saw him again, as she said before.


Concerning the individual, she describes him as being: Caucasian race, light skin, so he wasn’t Portuguese, but could be British, according to her criteria. Approximately 180 cm tall, thin complexion, 30/35 years of age. Short hair, like shaved with 1 cm of length and fair, but she isn’t sure if it was blonde because the sun was reflecting, and made perception more difficult. She didn’t see the eyes because he wore dark glasses of black colour, with a structure of mass, a thick frame. He had a large forehead. Nose of normal size, a bit pointy and sharp. Large ears, close against the head. Mouth with thin lips, she didn’t see his teeth. Chin pointing up, which stood out on a face that she describes as sharp. No beard, no moustache, a clean shave. No other special signs, apart from some small pimples on the face as a result of shaving. He looked ugly, even ‘disgusting’.

The first time that she saw him he was wearing a sports style jacket of thin black leather, with a zipper and several pockets also with similar zippers, in silver. She saw no label or inscription. The jacket was open, therefore she saw a white t-shirt, with a dark blue label near the waist, which she cannot identify very well.

Trousers, she thinks, of blue jeans, worn out. Sports shoes (trainers) in black and grey, with a wave, maybe ‘Nike’ in a colour that she can’t remember.

The second time, he wore the same jacket, this time zipped up, because the day was colder than the first one, windy. She didn’t notice the rest of the clothing. She says that on that day he had a pen with a string attached to one of his pockets.

The first time, he was leaning against the wall against his hands, and the second time, he had his hands in his pockets.

She never saw him with any photo camera, or any mobile phone, although the second time, he might have a device in his pocket, which she detected by the shape.

When asked, she says that she saw no vehicle near the man, only a few vehicles, but near the ‘Baptista’.

When asked she says that she saw Madeleine once, on a day that she cannot indicate, on the balcony where the man was staring at, the first time. She even waved at her because it was a small child, in a caring gesture.

A map of the area is added, where A is the spot of the first sighting and B the spot for the second one. The ‘Baptista’ supermarket and Madeleine’s apartment.

She said that she can recognise the man both personally and photographically, and create a photofit.

Therefore I interrupt the present deposition and show the deponent photographs of individuals with similar characteristics.

I resume the deposition where it is consigned that the diligence resulted negatively, according to a report that is annexed.

She didn’t say anything further. The deposition is read and approved, ratified and signed together with the interpreter that assisted.

The present deposition is written and signed."

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post6019.html#p6019
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 08:29:11 PM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2014, 08:26:57 PM »
According to Mrs Fenns neice ,Mrs Fenn lived there for a very long time, (I wonder if she died in her flat), so it is possible that someone at some time lived permanently in 5A. Did I read a witness statement from a young girl whose grandma lived there once? I will have a look.

That's right, the twelve year old girl ('T.M.S') reports seeing a man hovering about in the area.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3141.0

She notes that her grandmother lived in 5 A and this was why she was alert to what was going on as she walked by.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2014, 08:27:20 PM »
@)(++(*

Road sweepers now SH?

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2014, 08:27:32 PM »
Beat me to it, Anna!

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2014, 08:28:30 PM »
@)(++(*

Road sweepers now SH?

It's not a theory of mine, Lyall!

Just noting points of possible interest in the statements and we'll take it from there...

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2014, 08:29:09 PM »
How was this established?

I believe  there was an investigation by the PJ  into tracing previous inhabitants.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The other occupants of Apt 5a before and after the McCanns visit.
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2014, 08:30:29 PM »
It's not a theory of mine, Lyall!

Just noting points of possible interest in the statements and we'll take it from there...

Of interest to whom? >@@(*&)

Charity collectors, road sweepers etc. etc. Everyone is a suspect if they are. Everyone who was in PdL the previous two weeks, and everyone within travelling distance in those two weeks (which is the whole world!)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 08:32:49 PM by Lyall »