Author Topic: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?  (Read 102667 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2014, 08:17:57 PM »
Did she say that ? I've not heard that before.

Mrs Fenn said something similar but this is Fiona's statement


Reply
“Awful, erm, I’ve never seen such horrible raw emotion in my life and I’ve seen a lot of it in my job. Erm, tut, she, she was just bereft, she didn’t know what to do, she was just panicking, extremely frightened, extremely frightened for Madeleine and, erm, was wondering where she was or what was happening to her. And the helplessness, erm, of not being able to do anything, what should she be doing, what could they do. Erm, she was angry, really angry, tut, punching walls, kicking walls, she was covered in bruises the next day, because she just didn’t know what, what else to do. She was angry at herself, she kept saying ‘I’ve let her down. We’ve let her down Gerry’, you know, ‘We should have been here’. Erm, tut, she was praying a lot. Erm, I just don’t think she knew what to do, what to do. And she was just howling. It was just, just awful. I think as time went on it just seemed a massive delay from when we said to Matt to phone the Police, erm, that hour, it was an hour, it just seemed like an eternity, where nothing was happening, tut. Erm, you know, we’re all intelligent people, we were all trying to think what we should be doing and, you know, what’s going to make a difference. And Kate’s ringing, Gerry’s ringing anybody under the sun, family, they just don’t, they honestly just didn’t know what to do. So there was a lot of, Gerry’s in and out, I mean, they were just sobbing, going between sobbing and then feeling helpless and then ringing people and this frantic activity. Kate was desperate to have a Priest, which, you know, people find weird, but I think that was just her way of thinking ‘At least I can pray for Madeleine’ and her way of feeling that she was doing something. Erm, tut, but she wasn’t functioning”.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post459.html#p459


“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2014, 08:32:23 PM »
Mrs Fenn ...Part of:-

the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out “we have let her down” which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post440.html#p440
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2014, 11:36:17 PM »
I agree and I would never leave children alone in a house, holiday home or Butlins. It was wrong and that's what Kate was shouting about when Mrs Fenn heard her "We should have been here", "we let her down" she was screaming.
They know that they have done wrong.
Why they did? I do not know, but I do know they must be suffering for it now.
                I hope this is a lesson to any parents who are thinking its alright to leave their children to go and join
 their friends to socialise.

Well,  it's not a lesson the McCanns  have sought to teach,  is it  ? 

Not once have they said  ...   "We were wrong,  in principle,   to leave our infants alone and vulnerable that night.  Please don't do as we did"

Instead,  they have justified their decisions and insisted that their childcare provisions were  'well within the bounds of responsible parenting' 

If other parents have been  influenced into being more vigliant and less cavalier  following this case it won't be because the McCanns have advised them to

Offline pegasus

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2014, 11:48:18 PM »
Witnesses Balu and Berry were on an outdoor first floor balcony and only became aware of the emergency when they heard and saw the father searching and shouting her name below.

The location of this balcony is important

If the balcony is very close to 5A then the people on balcony would have noticed searching below within a few minutes of the alarm.

IOn the other hand f the balcony is a kilometre away then you could reasonably claim it might have been something like 20 minutes before the people on balcony noticed searching below.

Maybe if I post an aerial photo of exact balcony location it will be helpful to show how very unlikely it is that a huge 15 or 20 minute gap occurred between alarm and balcony people seeing searching below.....  >@@(*&)

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2014, 11:51:32 PM »
Witnesses Balu and Berry were on an outdoor first floor balcony and only became aware of the emergency when they heard and saw the father searching and shouting her name below.

The location of this balcony is important

If the balcony is very close to 5A then the people on balcony would have noticed searching below within a few minutes of the alarm.

IOn the other hand f the balcony is a kilometre away then you could reasonably claim it might have been something like 20 minutes before the people on balcony noticed searching below.

Maybe if I post an aerial photo of exact balcony location it will be helpful to show how very unlikely it is that a huge 15 or 20 minute gap occurred between alarm and balcony people seeing searching below.....  >@@(*&)

It has been noted more than once that Russell O'Brien resembles Gerry.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 11:59:14 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline pegasus

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2014, 12:07:04 AM »
Witnesses Balu and Berry were on an outdoor first floor balcony and only became aware of the emergency when they heard and saw the father searching and shouting her name below.

The location of this balcony is important

If the balcony is very close to 5A then the people on balcony would have noticed searching below within a few minutes of the alarm.

IOn the other hand f the balcony is a kilometre away then you could reasonably claim it might have been something like 20 minutes before the people on balcony noticed searching below.

Maybe if I post an aerial photo of exact balcony location it will be helpful to show how very unlikely it is that a huge 15 or 20 minute gap occurred between alarm and balcony people seeing searching below.....  >@@(*&)
Green: balcony from which witnesses saw father searching and shouting childs name.
Yellow: apartment 5A.
Blue: Tapas area entrance
Purple: Tapas restuarant
click image to enlarge
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:20:44 AM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2014, 12:12:54 AM »
Witnesses Balu and Berry were on an outdoor first floor balcony and only became aware of the emergency when they heard and saw the father searching and shouting her name below.

The location of this balcony is important

If the balcony is very close to 5A then the people on balcony would have noticed searching below within a few minutes of the alarm.

IOn the other hand f the balcony is a kilometre away then you could reasonably claim it might have been something like 20 minutes before the people on balcony noticed searching below.

Maybe if I post an aerial photo of exact balcony location it will be helpful to show how very unlikely it is that a huge 15 or 20 minute gap occurred between alarm and balcony people seeing searching below.....  >@@(*&)


Gerry's route - you could say he did a circle. 10.15 is the time out there. They did hear Gerry shouting for Madeleine from Berry's balcony. They came down and talked to Gerry and joined in with the search. We can work this out easily from other statements. After talking with them he is finishing his circle and is coming back to 5A. Let me show you:

10 - 10.08 - Diane Webster in 5A. - No Gerry

10.10  - Fiona Payne arrives at 5A - No Gerry

10.20 Emma Knight arrives at 5A - No Gerry

10.25 Gerry comes inside 5A - Gerry is Here!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:20:04 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2014, 12:19:39 AM »
I know Gerry's route - you could say he did a circle. 10.15 is the time out there. They did hear Gerry shouting from Berry's balcony. They came down and talked to Gerry and joined in the search. We can work this out easily from other statements. Let me show you:

10 - 10.08 - Diane Webster in 5A. - No Gerry

10.10  - Fiona Payne arrives at 5A - No Gerry

10.20 Emma Knight arrives at 5A - No Gerry

10.25 Gerry comes inside 5A - Gerry is Here!
So are you claiming that over 15 minutes elapsed from the alarm until the people on a first floor balcony, closer to 5A than the tapas restuarant, saw and heard the first searcher to pass below their balcony?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:21:40 AM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2014, 12:26:10 AM »
So are you claiming that over 15 minutes elapsed from the alarm until the people on a first floor balcony, closer to 5A than the tapas restuarant, saw and heard the first searcher to pass below their balcony?


Ask Birch how he got the time - writing letters to Carter Ruck with the info trying to dig Murat's place. Birch somehow got hold of the time 10.15 that he was first spotted by Berry/Balu. That's at the end of his circle coming from Murat's direction. It works out with my theory. 15 minutes to do the circle i.e. 10 - 10.15. After talking to Berry/Balu not long after that he is spotted coming into 5A.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:38:36 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2014, 12:34:15 AM »
BTW an ancillary result:
The searcher, whom witness Mrs Carpenter thought she might have heard shouting the childs name,was IMO the father. She heard the same shouting of childs name as heard by the people on a block 6 balcony. The C family must have left restuarant a little later than they recalled.

Offline pegasus

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2014, 12:46:41 AM »
Ask Birch how he got the time - writing letters to Carter Ruck with the info trying to dig Murat's place. Birch somehow got hold of the time 10.15 that he was first spotted by Berry/Balu. That's at the end of his circle coming from Murat's direction. It works out with my theory. 15 minutes to do the circle i.e. 10 - 10.15.
If your theory critically depends on that source there is nothing I can do to help.
I posted the balcony location and made a reasonable point that your 10:15 time for sighting from balcony may be far too late
Was expecting a reasonable defence from your theory (rather than just blaming it on a ridiculously poor source).
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:49:51 AM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2014, 12:57:42 AM »
Matt didn't see Gerry again until about 10.35-40 when the police were contacted and logged at 10.41pm.

Matt going to the Millennium Restaurant would've passed Berry's apartment but this would have been 10.20 estimate time.

10.10pm

"I said, you've got to phone the Police, you know, a child's been taken, and they went, oh no, she's probably just sort of woken up and he thought she's probably sort of wandered off or something like that and you thought, yeah, maybe you're right, maybe you're right, erm, can you please, it was sort of, it was kind of, it was sort a weird kind of lack of urgency, you know, he'd ring, but you had to sort and stand there and say, ring now, ring now, so I don't know if they rang at that point, but certainly, erm, you know, I certainly asked them to, about perhaps sort of maybe about ten past ten maybe. Erm, then we went back up to, or I went, because I was on my own, I went back up to the, erm, to the apartment and it was just obvious that she wasn't in the apartment, but we were still sort of just milling about on the street, everybody was just running around just sort of trying to, you know, sort of search nearby roads. And so we, erm, I volunteered to go up to the, erm, I went up to the Millennium Restaurant because it was just one of the routes that I thought she might have taken, although I couldn't say why I thought she would because we'd only been there once on that night before and maybe she'd been for the restaurant, so we'd only been at the initial welcoming, that was the only time that we went for that meal in the evening because the food wasn't great there, it wasn't quite up to the MARK WARNER resorts of, but anyway, so we did other things and that's why we liked the Tapas, so there was no reason really why she'd have gone up there, but it was a, just a different route. So a lot of it in terms of timing is blurred, but up and onto the top road to the Millennium Restaurant, which is pretty much you come up and along this road for about sort of five or ten minutes and sort of this end of town, let them know that a little girl was missing and then gone back through the back streets, down on the beach and then back to the apartment. Erm, at some point we were back and forth to the, to the reception as well. And I think what the reception probably did was ring the MARK WARNER people and say, there's somebody that's saying there's a child missing, because by that time there were lots of MARK WARNER people around, erm, and they were very good, they, you know, they obviously, you know, got there and that might have been the impetus that got them to ring the Police, if, because I understand that there is some discrepancy about when we thought we'd called the Police and when the Police were actually called and that might be that they went on the, on that route first and then went, I think it's Stuart HILL or, well the Manager, the sort of Manager got involved, that might have been when it occurred. Erm, so there was plenty of running around through the back streets and back to the apartment and then, you know, where's the, where are the Police, where are the Police, erm, and so went back down to the reception, this would have been about thirty minutes or so later, erm, back to reception, erm, and at that point, Gerry had come down as well." (MO)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:59:32 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2014, 01:04:48 AM »
If your theory critically depends on that source there is nothing I can do to help.
I posted the balcony location and made a reasonable point that your 10:15 time for sighting from balcony may be far too late
Was expecting a reasonable defence from your theory (rather than just blaming it on a ridiculously poor source).

Thanks I will come back to this tomorrow. I've had enough posts for one day.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?
« Reply #88 on: March 23, 2014, 01:08:56 AM »
Photo showing the exact balcony where the witnesses were (green cross)

 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 02:25:33 AM by Mr Moderator »