The dogs.....

[debunker]

Can anyone confirm if actual tests were done on this organic material such as blood supposedly found in apartment 5a?  Did it come back as a match to Madeleine?

The blood found in the appartment was that of a Northern European Male.  No blood matching Madeleine was found.

In the documents I have in the PJ CD provided by the Portimão Court there is no reference (as far as I recall; I may be wrong and accept corrections) to any northern male, but there are several references to a possible link to Madeleine, although non-conclusive, because in
Portugal 15 out of 19 alleles are not enough (in some US states 10 would be sufficient to send someone to the electric chair though)...and in a very unexpected and opportune e-mail the FSS director alluded to possible contamination of the samples by the staff...

You obviously do not understand multi-subject LCN DNA  procedures! Ask if you wish to understand the truth, ignore if you wish to remain ignorant.

[goatboy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but was it once reported that the dogs detected the scent of a cadaver on a pair of Kate's trousers? And that she explained this away by saying that as a locum GP she would have come into contact with corpses? This didn't quite add up for me. A locum GP probably spends most of their time inspecting piles and writing out prescriptions for antibiotics and antidepressants. Only in exceptional cases and if they were very unlucky would they have any contact with dead bodies. Plus Kate McCann strikes me as somewhat stylish and sophisticated, would someone like that really take their work clothes on holiday with them? Without washing them too?

[debunker]

Correct me if I'm wrong but was it once reported that the dogs detected the scent of a cadaver on a pair of Kate's trousers? And that she explained this away by saying that as a locum GP she would have come into contact with corpses? This didn't quite add up for me. A locum GP probably spends most of their time inspecting piles and writing out prescriptions for antibiotics and antidepressants. Only in exceptional cases and if they were very unlucky would they have any contact with dead bodies. Plus Kate McCann strikes me as somewhat stylish and sophisticated, would someone like that really take their work clothes on holiday with them? Without washing them too?

She did not say that. Unless you can provide a cite we shall have to see it as a myth.

That should answer your doubts.

[debunker]

 Back on topic.

Eddie (the cadaver dog) also alerts to dried blood from persons who are still alive.

Are we all agreed on that?

[Silkywhiskers]

I don't know why you don't merge all the Dog Fail threads into one and just be done with it.

If the dogs are crap, why is everyone constantly examining every tiny detail of their work?

Although HOW this has become a main theme of the investigation, beats me.

Every Law Enforcement in the world uses dogs.

The Dog training has escaped every budget cut there is - because they WORK.

The very first thing you would call for if your toddler wandered away, or your elderly parent, would be a dog to track where they might've gone.

The Dogs found a criminal in my backyard, hiding in a bin full of compost. 

An off duty EVRD found the killing fields on Long Island.

Yeah dogs are crap.

[sadie]

I don't know why you don't merge all the Dog Fail threads into one and just be done with it.

If the dogs are crap, why is everyone constantly examining every tiny detail of their work?

Although HOW this has become a main theme of the investigation, beats me.

Every Law Enforcement in the world uses dogs.

The Dog training has escaped every budget cut there is - because they WORK.

The very first thing you would call for if your toddler wandered away, or your elderly parent, would be a dog to track where they might've gone.

The Dogs found a criminal in my backyard, hiding in a bin full of compost. 

An off duty EVRD found the killing fields on Long Island.

Yeah dogs are crap.

I dont think anyone is saying that the dogs were crap Swiskers.  They may have made  some mistakes or they may not have.  Generally it appears that they were fine.
k
I truly think that Martin Grime was mistaken about what the dog alerted to in the villa.  It certainly wasn't Ccat.  And I do think that his keep calling the dogs back to certain places seemed not only odd, but also rather unbalanced when he didn't call back to so many other places.  He might have had reasons that we dont know about.

What is wrong about the dogs markings is that Amaral either didn't understand them, didn't want to understand them or just barged on ignoring exactly what was indicated and what wasn't indicated.


I find it sad that so many of you have hung on his every word, when it is plain that Amaral was wrong.  Sorry, but you have to accept that.

[stephen25000]

I don't know why you don't merge all the Dog Fail threads into one and just be done with it.

If the dogs are crap, why is everyone constantly examining every tiny detail of their work?

Although HOW this has become a main theme of the investigation, beats me.

Every Law Enforcement in the world uses dogs.

The Dog training has escaped every budget cut there is - because they WORK.

The very first thing you would call for if your toddler wandered away, or your elderly parent, would be a dog to track where they might've gone.

The Dogs found a criminal in my backyard, hiding in a bin full of compost. 

An off duty EVRD found the killing fields on Long Island.

Yeah dogs are crap.

 

Excellent post sillywhiskers.

Yes, if the dogs have no value, why the continued attack on their use ?

[carlymichelle]

Excellent post sillywhiskers.

Yes, if the dogs have no value, why the continued attack on their use ?

because   dogs have   better smell senses then humans    it  frightens  the mcann supporters  and   the mcanns imo just because the dogs couldnt  tell  people what they smelt  doesnt mean they are  wrong

[Carana]

I don't know why you don't merge all the Dog Fail threads into one and just be done with it.

If the dogs are crap, why is everyone constantly examining every tiny detail of their work?

Although HOW this has become a main theme of the investigation, beats me.

Every Law Enforcement in the world uses dogs.

The Dog training has escaped every budget cut there is - because they WORK.

The very first thing you would call for if your toddler wandered away, or your elderly parent, would be a dog to track where they might've gone.

The Dogs found a criminal in my backyard, hiding in a bin full of compost. 

An off duty EVRD found the killing fields on Long Island.

Yeah dogs are crap.

Weren't the dogs alerts meant to be the smoking gun in Amaral's thesis?

[pegasus]

Back on topic.

Eddie (the cadaver dog) also alerts to dried blood from persons who are still alive.

Are we all agreed on that?

Eddie had two vartieties of alert. A head-down alert might well be blood IMO. A head-up alert certainly not IMO.
 

[ferryman]

Eddie had two vartieties of alert. A head-down alert might well be blood IMO. A head-up alert certainly not IMO.

Who can produce video evidence of Eddie giving a 'head-down' alert?

[ferryman]

Any takers on video evidence of Eddie giving a 'head-down' alert?

[Serendipity]

A couple of points which I must highlight.  Eddie's alerts in the apartment and the hire car could have been to many substances other than that related to a cadaver.  Martin Grime admitted this.

Do not therefore assume that if Madeleine died in the apartment she had to have lain there for at least 1½ hours. Madeleine's death in the apartment, if it happened, does not necessarily have to be in any way associated with the later dog alerts.

Please always think outside the box.

What many substances are these?  The dogs alert to two things and two things only.  Eddie was trained to alert to blood and cadaver scent and Keela to blood.  Can you cite where Martin says they alert to anything else other than these? They were deconditioned to alerting to urine, semen and faeces unless they were mixed with blood so you can rule those out. Where Eddie alerted alone and Keela did not, he was alerting to cadaver scent only.

In Martins opinion where Eddie alerted alone he said and I quote

'My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant'

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Also, I do not assume that a body would have to have lain for 1.5 hours before a dog would alert, I base what I post on hard facts.

A body would have to be insitu for at least 1.5 hours as it would not be possible for a dog to alert to cadaver scent earlier than that as the general consensous among scientists is that  chemicals from decomposition only appear once a body has began to decompose. It takes our organs up to 90 minutes to die. Decomposition won't start until after the last organ dies so a body would have to have been insitu for over 90 minutes for any scent to develop and be detectable by a dog like Eddie.

[ferryman]

What many substances are these?  The dogs alert to two things and two things only.  Eddie was trained to alert to blood and cadaver scent and Keela to blood.  Can you cite where Martin says they alert to anything else other than these? They were deconditioned to alerting to urine, semen and faeces unless they were mixed with blood so you can rule those out. Where Eddie alerted alone and Keela did not, he was alerting to cadaver scent only.

In Martins opinion where Eddie alerted alone he said and I quote

'My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant'

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Also, I do not assume that a body would have to have lain for 1.5 hours before a dog would alert, I base what I post on hard facts.

A body would have to be insitu for at least 1.5 hours as it would not be possible for a dog to alert to cadaver scent earlier than that as the general consensous among scientists is that  chemicals from decomposition only appear once a body has began to decompose. It takes our organs up to 90 minutes to die. Decomposition won't start until after the last organ dies so a body would have to have been insitu for over 90 minutes for any scent to develop and be detectable by a dog like Eddie.

That was about as unprofessional an opinion as opinions get ...

I repeat my challenge.

Can anyone find a video of Eddie giving a 'head-down' alert?

[stephen25000]

That was about as unprofessional an opinion as opinions get ...

That form the expert on nothing.