Author Topic: The dogs.....  (Read 66880 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #435 on: July 28, 2014, 08:49:33 PM »
No the dog is good. Gerry is not good so he fears a good trained dog. People who believe Gerry like ostrich. In sand
SY do not believe the dog

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #436 on: July 28, 2014, 09:03:13 PM »
What?

Eddie was interested in anything and everything except the Renault Scenic.

He needed to be "corrected" and "focused" by his handler before he finally concentrated on the Renault.

And what he (finally) found to focus on (fortuitously for Grime) was spots of Gerry's blood ...

Maybe you missed it.

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline DCI

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Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #437 on: July 28, 2014, 09:17:20 PM »
Grime say's he didn't know which car was the McCann's.  The car was covered in posters on both back door windows and the boot window.

Why were these posters not there, when Grime went back to the car towards the end of the search? The car was also moved. Levy should have done a better job of cuts.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 03:57:07 AM by John »
Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #438 on: July 28, 2014, 09:26:03 PM »
Maybe you missed it.



I'm assuming your point is that a dog can react some distance from the source that prompts the reaction?

Eddie reacted to the ignition key (or fob) twice, in two, very different, spots.

That tends to suggest he was reacting to Gerry's blood, confirmed in the laboratories.

The point of principal concern about the inspection of vehicles is that there was an innocent scent in the Renault, and there might, easily, have been innocent scents in any of the other 9 cars.

That risked confusion for the dog.

It also risked confounding rather than progressing the quest for truth about what happened to Madeleine.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 03:55:49 AM by John »

Offline sadie

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #439 on: July 28, 2014, 10:08:38 PM »
See the dog is trained good. People who say the dog not good is because of fear.just know the dog is good then ask why the dog barks? The dog barks because of death. Who is hiding death? Not from the dog even because dog is so good. Some people hide like ostrich.
Jackie

Eddie barks for a number of other things than death.  Please get it right.  You are in danger of spreading myths and disinformation.

What Eddie alerted to could be any one of a number of things, none related in the least to death or to Madeleine.

None of Madeleines DNA was found.

Offline Jackie Sparrow

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #440 on: July 28, 2014, 10:35:08 PM »
Jackie

Eddie barks for a number of other things than death.  Please get it right.  You are in danger of spreading myths and disinformation.

What Eddie alereted to could be any one of a number of things, none related in the least to death or to Madeleine.

None of Madeleines DNA was found.

The dog is trained to smell death. The dog smells death good before many times. you fear so say not death must be other. You are ostrich like all else

Offline misty

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #441 on: July 28, 2014, 10:45:28 PM »
The dog is trained to smell death. The dog smells death good before many times. you fear so say not death must be other. You are ostrich like all else

Is Eddie trained to precisely highlight the object from which the cadaver odour emanates, ie the car key strategically placed in the door pocket of the Scenic, rather than just the general vicinity? I have always failed to understand how Grime could produce the key like a magician's rabbit from a hat, as opposed to waiting for further examination of the vehicle interior.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #442 on: July 28, 2014, 10:50:20 PM »
Is Eddie trained to precisely highlight the object from which the cadaver odour emanates, ie the car key strategically placed in the door pocket of the Scenic, rather than just the general vicinity? I have always failed to understand how Grime could produce the key like a magician's rabbit from a hat, as opposed to waiting for further examination of the vehicle interior.

In fairness, Misty, Keela does react with some precision, and she reacted to the key fob.

It was that, combined with Eddie's reaction, that prompted Grime to have Eddie test the key fob a second time, just about the only act of Grime's I actually give him credit for ...

Offline Jackie Sparrow

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #443 on: July 28, 2014, 11:00:41 PM »
The video might have been edited and produced in court to show inspections carried out on separate days, or separate time-periods in the same day.

There would be no deception.

The key point would be a canine reaction corroborated by forensic analysis in a laboratory, but without the risk of confusion for the dog arising from simultaneous scents from different sources, all within the dog's trained scent-range ...

Not confused. The dog is trained good. The dog found the death smell so you fear the dog.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #444 on: July 28, 2014, 11:04:25 PM »
Not confused. The dog is trained good. The dog found the death smell so you fear the dog.

The dog is well-trained, to react to blood as well as to cadaver scent.

But it isn't trained to distinguish between the scents ...

Offline pegasus

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #445 on: July 28, 2014, 11:05:11 PM »
A dog can tell which vehicle the scent comes from.
The scent was coming out of the drain hole in the lower section of rubber door seal of the left front (driver's) door of the Scenic. That is precise. There was no confusion with the other vehicles. Look at the video of Eddie sniffing closely at the door seals of the rental Corsa. Does he signal there? No. Why not? Because there was no relevant scent coming out of the Corsa door seals.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 04:11:00 AM by John »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #446 on: July 28, 2014, 11:19:19 PM »
A dog can tell which vehicle the scent comes from.
The scent was coming out of the drain hole in the lower section of rubber door seal of the left front (driver's) door of the Scenic. That is precise. There was no confusion with the other vehicles. Look at the video of Eddie sniffing closely at the door seals of the rental Corsa. Does he signal there? No. Why not? Because there was no relevant scent coming out of the Corsa door seals.

Eddie was only given a chance to properly sniff one car.  As soon as he "strayed" from that car, Grime called him back.

That happened repeatedly.

The Portuguese dog-handlers (in my opinion) vastly more professional than Grime, were not told which apartment was the McCanns'.

That was to avoid risk of bias in the dog-and-handler partnership.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 04:11:21 AM by John »

Offline pegasus

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #447 on: July 28, 2014, 11:30:58 PM »
Eddie was only given a chance to properly sniff one car.  As soon as he "strayed" from that car, Grime called him back.

That happened repeatedly.

The Portuguese dog-handlers (in my opinion) vastly more professional than Grime, were not told which apartment was the McCanns'.

That was to avoid risk of bias in the dog-and-handler partnership.
1. I will post footage of Eddie examining closely another car (not the Scenic).
2. The GNR dog handlers all knew which was the missing child's apartment.

Offline Brietta

Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #448 on: July 28, 2014, 11:47:39 PM »
Dogs are used around the world.

Why ?

because they do the job their trained for.

SY used them in Portugal.

So when don't they work ?

the mccanns.....

and gerry boy says they're no good, and you got to believe him, cus he knows everthing. 8)--))

The dogs which are used around the world do the job they are trained to do which in the case of cadaver and CSI dogs is to indicate areas of interest from which evidence may be gathered for forensic testing; and which may be later used in court. 

This can be anything from a corpse to parts of a corpse or blood splatter even if an attempt has been made to 'clean up'. 

The cadaver dog if trained using pig, will react to pig. 

It will also react to every substance expelled from a living human body such as spit, fingernails, blood, excrement … as these all begin to decay immediately on separation. 

When the dogs worked in Portugal … nothing evidential was found. 
They found no trace at all of Madeleine McCann and certainly no proof of her death. 

However if you refuse to take Martin Grime’s word for it, you will hardly take mine.  But your stance tends to make you look rather ill informed.

"So when don’t they work? The mccanns" … absolutely incorrect, there are very many occasions when unfortunately they don’t "work" otherwise there would be no such thing as a victim’s body lying undisturbed for many years despite intensive searching.

In the case of Suzanne Pilley from Edinburgh ... despite her body not being found yet ... a conviction was enabled helped by the use of a cadaver dog.  Not only the VRD indications , but on a trail of evidence in which the dog alert played a part; without further substantial supportive evidence the dog alert on 'cadaver scent' would not have got the suspect to court because it is not evidence of anything on its own.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The dogs.....
« Reply #449 on: July 28, 2014, 11:55:49 PM »
1. I will post footage of Eddie examining closely another car (not the Scenic).
2. The GNR dog handlers all knew which was the missing child's apartment.

However, in spite of not being a normal situation for tracking, it could be attempted, whilst the operation should be carried out as quickly as possible and not directed towards one but to all the apartments in the resort, it being appropriate for the handler not to know which apartment was chosen, so as not the be conditioned.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 12:00:14 AM by ferryman »