The dogs.....

[sadie]

How would that be possible unless the vehicle were airtight?

You are quite right AP.

I guess that immersion in a depth of water might cause a difference in pressure, but with small places that the air/ water could get in / out the difference in pressure wouldn't last long methinks.

This doesn't alter the fact that car door seals are designed to be totally air and water tight.  Driving thru floods and a torrential storm illustrates that.


-  So just how did the odour of whatever: Human cadavar, decomposing bodliy fluids or pig cadavar, manage to escape from the car? 

As I pointed out before, Madeleine is unlikely to have been dragged in via the door .... and that is the only way I can see that any cadavar odour from her could be presentwhere Eddie alerted..

-  So exactly what did Eddie alert to? 
-  What was on the outside of that door close to the door edge? 
-  And how did it get there?

[stephen25000]

Dogs play an important role worldwide and are extremely reliable.

If they have no evidential value, why are mccann supporters so concerned about them ?

[Mr Gray]

Dogs play an important role worldwide and are extremely reliable.

If they have no evidential value, why are mccann supporters so concerned about them ?

Not concerned about the dogs at all...the dogs have no evidential VALUE by by the way. What concerns me is the spread of misinformation re the dogs....people who don't understand the alerts...like amaral

[stephen25000]

Not concerned about the dogs at all...the dogs have no evidential VALUE by by the way. What concerns me is the spread of misinformation re the dogs....people who don't understand the alerts...like amaral

Please get it right.

The dogs responses are evidence.

The forensics are inconclusive.

..and you are worried, or you wouldn't comment on this thread.

[Mr Gray]

Please get it right.

The dogs responses are evidence.

The forensics are inconclusive.

..and you are worried, or you wouldn't comment on this thread.

the dogs alerts have no evidential reliability according to Grime..he's the expert..you don't understand

[stephen25000]

the dogs alerts have no evidential reliability according to Grime..he's the expert..you don't understand

it is you who doesn't understand and that has been pointed out to you on other occasions, including John who was a policeman.

The dogs indications are evidence, and the forensics were inconclusive.

Merely because the findings weren't backed forensically,does not mean the dogs didn't alert to a body.

..and let's face it, there's nothing else on the horizon.

[Mr Gray]

it is you who doesn't understand and that has been pointed out to you on other occasions, including John who was a policeman.

The dogs indications are evidence, and the forensics were inconclusive.

Merely because the findings weren't backed forensically,does not mean the dogs didn't alert to a body.

..and let's face it, there's nothing else on the horizon.

I accept what Grime has said....and it isn't what you are saying...SY say Maddie may still be alive...therefore they do not accept the alerts as proof of death in 5A

[stephen25000]

I accept what Grime has said....and it isn't what you are saying...SY say Maddie may still be alive...therefore they do not accept the alerts as proof of death in 5A

SY also say Madeleine may be dead, and may not have left the apartment alive.

Basically, SY haven't got a clue.

[Mr Gray]

SY also say Madeleine may be dead, and may not have left the apartment alive.

Basically, SY haven't got a clue.

You miss the point...the fact they think she may be alive means they don't accept the dog's detected her scent of death in 5A

[John]

Mr Grime won't be called to testify in a Portuguese court; and that is not a pejorative statement it is a statement of fact.  It is a matter of record that there is no evidence associated with the dog alerts. Mr Grime himself has made that abundantly clear.  So he will never be called.

That's not in fact true.  If a cadaver is eventually found then that forensic evidence becomes tangible and the dog alerts take on a whole new meaning. That old evidential reliability chestnut takes on a whole new meaning in such circumstances.  Regardless, in certain circumstances he might be required to speak to the material which already exists in the form of the CCTV footage evidence.

[slartibartfast]

That's not in fact true.  If a cadaver is eventually found then that forensic evidence becomes tangible and the dog alerts take on a whole new meaning. That old evidential reliability chestnut takes on a whole new meaning in such circumstances.  Regardless, in certain circumstances he might be required to speak to the material which already exists in the form of the CCTV footage evidence.

...as an expert witness.

[Mr Gray]

That's not in fact true.  If a cadaver is eventually found then that forensic evidence becomes tangible and the dog alerts take on a whole new meaning. That old evidential reliability chestnut takes on a whole new meaning in such circumstances.  Regardless, in certain circumstances he might be required to speak to the material which already exists in the form of the CCTV footage evidence.

The dogs alert take on no new meaning...unless forensic evidence is recovered from where the dogs alerted

[slartibartfast]

The dogs alert take on no new meaning...unless forensic evidence is recovered from where the dogs alerted

So any normal person would look at the case if a missing child, an alerting cadaver dog where the child disappeared from and the discovered body of the child and not regard that as strong circumstantial evidence of where the child died?

[Mr Gray]

So any normal person would look at the case if a missing child, an alerting cadaver dog where the child disappeared from and the discovered body of the child and not regard that as strong circumstantial evidence of where the child died?

any normal person would not have a clue re the significance of the alert...there are many on here and other forums who think they do...Its what Grimes has told us that counts..according to his statements he does not confirm the alerts signify cadaver

[slartibartfast]

any normal person would not have a clue re the significance of the alert...there are many on here and other forums who think they do...Its what Grimes has told us that counts..according to his statements he does not confirm the alerts signify cadaver

You really don't like the alerts do you?