The dogs.....

[stephen25000]

snippit



 My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
 suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
 suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
 number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
 reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
 corroborating evidence.

However, it does not mean the alerts could not have been due to a dead body.

[ferryman]

snippit



 My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
 suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant. This does not however
 suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
 number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
 reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
 corroborating evidence.

... as cross contamination could be as a result of a  number of given scenarios ...

Not least of which was wholesale disregard of the principle of cross-contamination in the way clothes were transferred to the gym for re-inspection ...

[sadie]

However, it does not mean the alerts could not have been due to a dead body.

And that fiver I found on the pavement could have come from a dead man
 ... or a cross dresser
... or a caberet star

or Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

What you are saying doesn't mean anything Stephen.  Take a break and think about it.

SUSPICIOUS MINDS !

[ferryman]

Clothes not alerted to in the villa were transferred to the gym and alerted to.

How do you explain that?

[sadie]

'....and was of blood from a living person.......'

.......and how do you know this ?

___________________________
Vol IX p. 2483

CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ. Any 'wetting' once dried will not affect the dog's abilities. Blood that is subjected to dilution by precipitation or other substantial water source prior to drying will soak into the ground or other absorbent material. This may dilute the scent to an unacceptable level for accurate location.

She is trained specifically using human blood obtained through the haematology department at Sheffield Northern General Hospital. The blood undergoes strict screening for disease and contamination prior to use. The samples are from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds and are from both male and female sources.

Keela's training and licensing is based around the level of 1 positive screening sample introduced into 200 control articles or 1 positive sample introduced during 6 hours searching in relation to crime scenes or vehicles.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic35.html

Thanks Anna

[stephen25000]

Thanks Anna

...and the point being exactly ?

Since originally, surprise surprise, blood would come from a living source or from a body.

So are you saying that keela would know which was which ?

[Anna]

Back on dogs and suspicions............When I had a really bad house fire about 20 years ago, the fireman said it was probably an electrical fault, where field mice had chewed some wire in my laundry, but who knows. maybe someone was trying to torch us.............................So easy to blame the innocent, if you are that way inclined, but I believe it was the mice, as there was no evidence of a crime

[stephen25000]

Back on dogs and suspicions............When I had a really bad house fire about 20 years ago, the fireman said it was probably an electrical fault, where field mice had chewed some wire in my laundry, but who knows. maybe someone was trying to torch us.............................So easy to blame the innocent, if you are that way inclined, but I believe it was the mice, as there was no evidence of a crime

Read my last comment.

So would it be one bark from a living source and two from a non-living source ?

[Anna]

You are on my ignore list, but since you seem to be following me around, I have made an exception and tried to answer your question.
 I believe that Fluid from a dead body(especially if dead for weeks)
 would be cadaver fluids and scent not blood from a person living at the time of the blood loss.

Some info........................................

does a dead body bleed?
Only if it punctured where the blood has settled. Once the heart stops beating, blood settles due to gravity. So, for instance. If someone died in a vertical position (on a cross) and was stabbed in the side, there would not be "blood and water." This person would have to have been stabbed in the legs for there to be blood to flow.
 This answer is only partially right. It is correct about "bleeding," but it then goes off to answer a different question: could "blood and water" have come out when a figure (like Jesus) who died on the cross is pierced "in the side."
 A better answer that avoids getting into the issue of Jesus' death is: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_dead_people_bleed?#slide=1
 It is true that after death there would be no bleeding, but there may be other fluids that resemble blood in a dead body. One such fluid is called "purge." "Purge from the mouth and nose usually originates in either the stomach or lungs, or both. The color of the purge will usually identify its origin. For instance, stomach purge usually is yellow to brown and can be semi-solid. Lung purge will usually be red to rust brown in color with a foamy texture. " http://www.iccfa.com/reading/2000-2009/embalming-z-purge

 This fluid may even come out after the body has been taken to the funeral home, so it lasts longer than the time blood stays liquid.
 Another possibility is pleurisy - inflamation of the sack around the heart & lungs. Pleurisy may result from the accumulation of fluid, possibly blood. Pleurisy may result from trauma to the chest such as blunt trauma or a puncture. http://health.wikinut.com/Diseases-Of-The-Pleura%3A-Dry-Or-Fibrinous-Pleurisy-And-Pleural-Shock/35gq7nj2/ Acute pericardial effusion may also occur with tachycardia. http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/acute-pericarditis Hypovolemic shock results from a loss of blood (leading to low blood pressure) or other fluids (dehydration). Blood pressure drops. Vascular fluid loss may be the result of internal bleeding. Blood may leak into any body cavity or space such as the lungs, or the pericardial area. Loss of consciousness (fainting) can result from hypovolemic shock.

 http://www.healthline.com/health/hypovolemic-shock

 - - -
 

[stephen25000]

You are on my ignore list, but since you seem to be following me around, I have made an exception and tried to answer your question.
 I believe that Fluid from a dead body(especially if dead for weeks)
 would be cadaver fluids and scent not blood from a person living at the time of the blood loss.

Some info........................................

does a dead body bleed?
Only if it punctured where the blood has settled. Once the heart stops beating, blood settles due to gravity. So, for instance. If someone died in a vertical position (on a cross) and was stabbed in the side, there would not be "blood and water." This person would have to have been stabbed in the legs for there to be blood to flow.
 This answer is only partially right. It is correct about "bleeding," but it then goes off to answer a different question: could "blood and water" have come out when a figure (like Jesus) who died on the cross is pierced "in the side."
 A better answer that avoids getting into the issue of Jesus' death is: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_dead_people_bleed?#slide=1
 It is true that after death there would be no bleeding, but there may be other fluids that resemble blood in a dead body. One such fluid is called "purge." "Purge from the mouth and nose usually originates in either the stomach or lungs, or both. The color of the purge will usually identify its origin. For instance, stomach purge usually is yellow to brown and can be semi-solid. Lung purge will usually be red to rust brown in color with a foamy texture. " http://www.iccfa.com/reading/2000-2009/embalming-z-purge

 This fluid may even come out after the body has been taken to the funeral home, so it lasts longer than the time blood stays liquid.
 Another possibility is pleurisy - inflamation of the sack around the heart & lungs. Pleurisy may result from the accumulation of fluid, possibly blood. Pleurisy may result from trauma to the chest such as blunt trauma or a puncture. http://health.wikinut.com/Diseases-Of-The-Pleura%3A-Dry-Or-Fibrinous-Pleurisy-And-Pleural-Shock/35gq7nj2/ Acute pericardial effusion may also occur with tachycardia. http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/acute-pericarditis Hypovolemic shock results from a loss of blood (leading to low blood pressure) or other fluids (dehydration). Blood pressure drops. Vascular fluid loss may be the result of internal bleeding. Blood may leak into any body cavity or space such as the lungs, or the pericardial area. Loss of consciousness (fainting) can result from hypovolemic shock.

 http://www.healthline.com/health/hypovolemic-shock

 - - -

and what happens if blood is released from a body at the time of death ?

It seems you are trying to find any excuse under the sun to try and negate any possibility the dog's indications were from a dead body


...and you haven't proven your case.

P.S. I'm not following you at all, merely replying to posts, just as you are doing, and I don't care one iota if I am on your ignore list.

[Anna]

Madeleine's blood was found nowhere!  Or have I missed something?

[stephen25000]

Madeleine's blood was found nowhere!  Or have I missed something?

Do you know that for sure ?

Are you an expert in forensics, which were of course inconclusive ?

[sadie]

Read my last comment.

So would it be one bark from a living source and two from a non-living source ?

What I cannot understand is why some of the the videos are spliced with important bits cut out. 

Had Keelas silent pointing alerts been shown on all the videos, then i think we would all have realised that we were looking at the blood dog Keela,  NOT the Cavadar dog Eddie.  I thought that I was looking at Eddie until Brietta pointed it out and I also looked at the long video.

Keela alerts by silently pointing with her nose.  Eddie alerts by barking.

In the long video we see Keela pointing when she alerts

http://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8

at about 1.28.40

Compare to the shorter video which we usually look at

http://youtu.be/FTF4JTLeOWA

at just before 5.00

This damned video was cut just about as Keela was ready to alert.  She silently points instead of barking as Eddie does.

Why was it cut short there?   I certianly hadn't realised that I was looking at Keela and NOT Eddie in the boot.  My bet is that many of us, if not most, also thought they were looking at the same dog as in the rest of the garage scenario.  In other words looking at the cadaver dog getting excited in the boot, even giving a little bark (alert)


The truth "Hidden in plain sight" sort of situation?  Let the punters think it is Eddie, which most of us did, cos it followed on from Eddie in the video  - and it is a black and white dog with a waggly tail just like Eddie



Is it accidental ? ... or is it deliberate misinformation by omision?  Obfuscation?  So that we think Eddie marked in the boot.  Seems he didn't.  No cadaver there.

NO CADAVER IN THE BOOT !

[stephen25000]

What I cannot understand is why some of the the videos are spliced with important bits cut out. 

Had Keelas silent pointing alerts been shown on all the videos, then i think we would all have realised that we were looking at the blood dog Keela,  NOT the Cavadar dog Eddie.  I thought that I was looking at Eddie until Brietta pointed it out and I also looked at the long video.

This has been dealt with before as well as the possibility of secondary transfer.

[Mr Gray]

This has been dealt with before as well as the possibility of secondary transfer.

grime has stated the alerts are only suggestive...therefore not definite