The dogs.....

[stephen25000]

grime has stated the alerts are only suggestive...therefore not definite

Really.

[Mr Gray]

Really.

100%

[stephen25000]

100%

So the dogs could not have alerted to a dead body dave ???

Is that what you're saying ?

[Mr Gray]

So the dogs could not have alerted to a dead body dave ???

Is that what you're saying ?

The dogs alert may indicate a cadaver and alternatively they may not...no one is sure

[Mr Moderator]

What I cannot understand is why some of the the videos are spliced with important bits cut out. 

Had Keelas silent pointing alerts been shown on all the videos, then i think we would all have realised that we were looking at the blood dog Keela,  NOT the Cavadar dog Eddie.  I thought that I was looking at Eddie until Brietta pointed it out and I also looked at the long video.

Keela alerts by silently pointing with her nose.  Eddie alerts by barking.

Eddie was never in the Grand Scenic hire car Sadie.  Martin Grime explained in the video that after Eddie had alerted at the drivers door that it was then for Keela to confirm the finds.

[Mr Gray]

Eddie was never in the Grand Scenic hire car Sadie.  Martin Grime explained in the video that after Eddie had alerted at the drivers door that it was then for Keela to confirm the finds.

so as keela alerted that rules out cadaver according to the thinking on this forum

[sadie]

Eddie was never in the Grand Scenic hire car Sadie.  Martin Grime explained in the video that after Eddie had alerted at the drivers door that it was then for Keela to confirm the finds.

That doesn't make sense Mr M.


If both dogs alert, then what Keela and Eddie are alerting to is just dried blood from a living person. 


Cos they BOTH alert to dried blood.


For the alert to have any chance of being Cadavar odour, Eddie MUST alert, but Keels MUST NOT.  Then forensics had to confirm.


Ferryman [or any other dog expert), please confirm or reject what I am saying.



Eddie had to have gone in that car and alerted somewhere that Keela did not, for it to be cadavar odour.... But he didn't.


No cadavar odour in that car, Mr M.

[Benice]

That doesn't make sense Mr M.


If both dogs alert, then what Keela and Eddie are alerting to is just dried blood from a living person. 


Cos they BOTH alert to dried blood.


For the alert to have any chance of being Cadavar odour, Eddie MUST alert, but Keels MUST NOT.  Then forensics had to confirm.


Ferryman [or any other dog expert), please confirm or reject what I am saying.



Eddie had to have gone in that car and alerted somewhere that Keela did not, for it to be cadavar odour.... But he didn't.


No cadavar odour in that car, Mr M.

Not necessarily Sadie as both dogs could be alerting to blood from a dead person.   However IIRC , on the occasions when both dogs alerted it was to blood from living people.   IIRC  One being to Gerry when both dogs alerted to the key fob, and another being identified as blood from one of the policemen - found inside 5a.

 

[ferryman]

Not necessarily Sadie as both dogs could be alerting to blood from a dead person.   However IIRC , on the occasions when both dogs alerted it was to blood from living people.   IIRC  One being to Gerry when both dogs alerted to the key fob, and another being identified as blood from one of the policemen - found inside 5a.

Yes, Gerry's DNA was identified from the key fob (alerted to by both dogs).

[misty]

Yes, Gerry's DNA was identified from the key fob (alerted to by both dogs).

Keela alerted in the rear wheel well. Eddie didn't, although Amaral was adamant he did.
How can both dogs alert to a key contained in the car but not blood in the wheel well inside the car?

[Brietta]

Keela alerted in the rear wheel well. Eddie didn't, although Amaral was adamant he did.
How can both dogs alert to a key contained in the car but not blood in the wheel well inside the car?

Runs in my mind that model did not have a wheel well inside the boot, Misty, making it all the more difficult to conceal anything let alone a body, as when they were filmed loading the vehicle with leaflets.

[sadie]

Not necessarily Sadie as both dogs could be alerting to blood from a dead person.   However IIRC , on the occasions when both dogs alerted it was to blood from living people.   IIRC  One being to Gerry when both dogs alerted to the key fob, and another being identified as blood from one of the policemen - found inside 5a.

But Eddie didn't go into the back of the car.  Only Keela alerted there.  So No alert for Cadavar there.

The key fob, they both alerted to, but it turned out to be blood from Gerry.  So no cadavar there.

As far as i am aware Eddie didn't alert anywhere in the car, just around the outside edge of the car (and maybe the keyfob)


The keyfob has been ruled out (above as Gerrys dried blood) .... and there were no other alerts by Eddie in the car





So everything accounted for and ruled out.  Therefore:[/size]

No cadavar odour in that car

[Benice]

But Eddie didn't go into the back of the car.  Only Keela alerted there.  So No alert for Cadavar there.

The key fob, they both alerted to, but it turned out to be blood from Gerry.  So no cadavar there.

As far as i am aware Eddie didn't alert anywhere in the car, just around the outside edge of the car (and maybe the keyfob)


The keyfob has been ruled out (above as Gerrys dried blood) .... and there were no other alerts by Eddie in the car





So everything accounted for and ruled out.  Therefore:

No cadavar odour in that car

Sorry Sadie - are we at cross purposes?  I was commenting on what you said below in blue  - which is correct if you are talking only about the alert to the key fob, but not correct as a general statement as both dogs will alert to dried blood from dead or living people.

The key fob was in the inside pocket of the driver's door - inches away from Eddies nose when he alerted.    IIRC the key fob was then taken away and put in a bucket of sand(?)  - where both dogs alerted to it.

Eddie wasn't put into the car - and so no alerts made there.

Sorry if I misunderstood your  post.


(If both dogs alert, then what Keela and Eddie are alerting to is just dried blood from a living person.) 

[pathfinder73]

What nonsense. Martin Grime's professional opinion was that Eddie was alerting to cadaver in all his alerts not blood. Keela alerted to blood in ONLY two places where Eddie alerted - behind the sofa and in the car - the key and boot.

[Benice]

What nonsense. Martin Grime's professional opinion was that Eddie was alerting to cadaver in all his alerts not blood. Keela alerted to blood in ONLY two places where Eddie alerted - behind the sofa and in the car - the key and boot.

And on both occasions the blood of living persons was identified from the swabs taken and forensically tested.  No other unidentified  DNA material  was found and therefore Eddie's alert could only have been to the same cellular  material Keela had alerted to.    And Keela only alerted to blood.  Therefore so did Eddie on those two occasions.