Author Topic: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?  (Read 340750 times)

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Offline John

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #360 on: March 29, 2014, 05:05:51 PM »
Lets have Mr Grime's full summary in respect of the dog deployments in Praia da Luz.

SUMMARY

 The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
 Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
 locate human remains or Human blood.

 The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
 alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
 evidence.

 Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
 alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
 indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.

 My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
 suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.
This does not however
 suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
 number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
 reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
 corroborating evidence.

Vol IX p. 2478



www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm




Comment:  Isn't it strange that the dogs never alerted in any other apartment or villa and that includes the Murat property?  Additionally, they did not alert to property belonging to any others within the group.    The cross contamination theory therefore would appear to be virtually worthless because of this.  No wonder Dr Amaral was convinced that the McCanns were complicit in some way in their daughters disappearance.


« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:13:57 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #361 on: March 29, 2014, 05:09:34 PM »
Lets have Mr Grime's full summary in respect of the dog deployments in Praia da Luz.

SUMMARY

 The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
 Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
 locate human remains or Human blood.

 The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
 alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
 evidence.

 Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
 alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
 indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.

 My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
 suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.
This does not however
 suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
 number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
 reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
 corroborating evidence.

Vol IX p. 2478



www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

So Grime's professional OPINION is on record...anyone who thinks he could walk into court...give a different OPINION and retain any credibility is a complete........I'll leave that to you



Just in case you missed it john

Offline John

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #362 on: March 29, 2014, 05:17:26 PM »
Yes Dave, his professional opinion was that the alerts were suggestive of cadaver scent contaminant.  What would you have preferred him to say? 
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #363 on: March 29, 2014, 05:21:24 PM »
Cadaver Dogs are only reliable when there is a Cadaver to be found.  Which they don't always do.
Anything else is supposition.

But since any old dog can find a Cadaver if there is one, then I don't really understand what the fuss is all about.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #364 on: March 29, 2014, 05:23:38 PM »
Yes Dave, his professional opinion was that the alerts were suggestive of cadaver scent contaminant.  What would you have preferred him to say?

He should say what his professional opinion is...and I accept it...serendipity has suggested this is not what he thinks

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #365 on: March 29, 2014, 05:25:40 PM »
He should say what his professional opinion is...and I accept it...serendipity has suggested this is not what he thinks

I disagree.

I think expression of such opinion is unprofessional

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #366 on: March 29, 2014, 05:26:08 PM »
Lets have Mr Grime's full summary in respect of the dog deployments in Praia da Luz.

SUMMARY

 The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
 Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
 locate human remains or Human blood.

 The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
 alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
 evidence.

 Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
 alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
 indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.

 My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
 suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.
This does not however
 suggest a motive or suspect as cross contamination could be as a result of a
 number of given scenarios and in any event no evidential or intelligence
 reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with
 corroborating evidence.

Vol IX p. 2478



www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm




Comment:  Isn't it strange that the dogs never alerted in any other apartment or villa and that includes the Murat property?  Additionally, they did not alert to property belonging to any others within the group.    The cross contamination theory therefore would appear to be virtually worthless because of this.  No wonder Dr Amaral was convinced that the McCanns were complicit in some way in their daughters disappearance.

IMO, All the alerts are entireley consistant with Kate having come into contact with at least six dead bodies, prior to the family holiday.

A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #367 on: March 29, 2014, 05:27:22 PM »
Keela was never trained to alert to cadaver scent, so how could she be deemed to have failed to alert to it?  She was trained to alert to blood only.  Eddie on the other hand was trained to alert to both blood and cadaver scent only. Neither dogs were trained to alert to anything else so when they alerted it  will only ever be to what they were trained to alert to and nothing else. Both dogs were deconditioned to alert to any other bodily fluids such as semen, urine etc unless they were mixed with blood. They were used in tandem as a fail safe method of determining what was being alerted to.  Using two dogs, both who were trained to alert to blood and one who was trained to alert to cadaver scent made that possible.  If Eddie was to alert, Martin would know that he had alerted to either blood or cadaver scent or both as they were the only two things he was trained for but would need to deploy Keela to validate Eddies alert.  As Keela only alerted to blood, if she did not also alert then it would mean that as per his training Eddie was only alerting to the other scent he was trained to detect i.e. cadaver scent.  If Keela also alerted to the same item/location as Eddie then the alerts would only be attributed to blood as Keela was not trained to detect cadaver scent.  Legally a blood alert is the only alert that authorities can accept as it can be proven what it is the dogs alerted to.  Where Keela does not alert but Eddie does alert Martin knows that = cadaver scent as that's what the dog was trained to detect but of course he cannot legally state that. It is up to police to identify any corroborative evidence  to prove that Eddie was indeed alerting to where a body or body part had been, which is why Martin can only state that it is 'suggestive' of cadaver scent until either a body or other forensic corroborative evidence explaining the alert is found.


There you are john...serendipity..who you have endorsed...is sating grime KNOWS the alert is cadaver scent....rather different to grime's official statement

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #368 on: March 29, 2014, 05:28:34 PM »
I disagree.

I think expression of such opinion is unprofessional

All he can state is opinion because he has no evidence to support it

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #369 on: March 29, 2014, 05:29:26 PM »
IMO, All the alerts are entireley consistant with Kate having come into contact with at least six dead bodies, prior to the family holiday.

A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html

according to what grime has said that may be a possibility

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #370 on: March 29, 2014, 05:31:52 PM »
All he can state is opinion because he has no evidence to support it

Why does he have to state opinion?

He can strict strictly to fact.

The dog alerted but nothing evidential can be inferred from those alerts unless they corroborated by forensic results.

Harrison never said anything about cadaver odour

Neither should have Grime

Offline colombosstogey

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #371 on: March 29, 2014, 05:36:06 PM »
IMO, All the alerts are entireley consistant with Kate having come into contact with at least six dead bodies, prior to the family holiday.

A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html

I thought her name was McCann not Shipman lol.
 
SIX dead patients jeez.....just before her holiday. Why would she need to have touched them? Most people die in hospital so why would she be attending six dead patients in their home?

Load of old cobblers. I thought she was only part time too.

Offline Carew

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #372 on: March 29, 2014, 05:38:31 PM »
according to what grime has said that may be a possibility

.......with the corpse-scented work clothes potentially cross-contaminating everything in the holiday suitcase, wardrobe......every child`s garment from cuddling their mother or playing together......every surface.......Well the list goes on.

Apparently, such is cross-contamination, the wonder was that anything remained un-alerted -to..........or ever does, really.

(makes the slap-dash- jumbled- box -packers shortcomings irrelevant really.)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:41:00 PM by Carew »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #373 on: March 29, 2014, 05:41:25 PM »
.......with the corpse-scented work clothes potentially cross-contaminating everything in the holiday suitcase, wardrobe......every child`s garment from cuddling their mother or playing together......every surface.......Well the list goes on.

Apparently, such is cross-contamination, the wonder was that anything remained un-alerted -to..........or ever does, really.


Haven't you got it?

No dog attending a crime scene should pick stuff up in its mouth

Offline Eleanor

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #374 on: March 29, 2014, 05:42:44 PM »
You need to read Cristovao's Book, "Star of Madeleine."  He was the one who came up with the Six Dead Bodies.  The McCanns never said it.
Another one making money from a missing child.

Cristovao is now in serious trouble with Portuguese Law, for Blackmail, among other things.