Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

[John]

My theory: routine change 6-30 to 7pm. Moved at 9 - minimum 2 hours in 5A.

Has the coincidental routine change and the other Dr calling at the apartment on the very day that Madeleine disappeared ever been satisfactorily explained?  And especially so as there is a discrepancy between witness statements wide enough to pass a jumbo jet through.

[pegasus]

My theory: routine change 6-30 to 7pm. Moved at 9 - minimum 2 hours in 5A.

"2.5 - 3 hours" is the minimum which the CSST experiment found to be required for consistent detection (by 5 out of 5 dogs).

[Silkywhiskers]

Has the coincidental routine change and the other Dr calling at the apartment on the very day that Madeleine disappeared ever been satisfactorily explained?  And especially so as there is a discrepancy between witness statements wide enough to pass a jumbo jet through.

Nope.

Along with all the other changing stories.

Windows jemmied, not jemmied, gusts of wind randomly appearing like Christmas Past, signalling to Kate that an Abductor had been there

The abductor who waltzed straight past the "checking" Gerry, unseen

Quite remarkable.  That black hole, the Portugese Portal, must have been used.

[sadie]

But that's my point.

This is NOT the "beginning" of their investigation, is it?

It is the END of it.  Or, the beginning of the end, to be more accurate.

Two years of review led to Op Grange.  Op Grange is now 2 years old.

It's not the "beginning", not even close.

Stage 1 and 2 are more or less completed.

We are now early in stage 3.  Yep, the beginning of the end.

[pegasus]

Yorkshire police presumably picked one of the very best dogs for their recent work in the UK, a black labrador, I wonder if she will be having a little trip to the Algarve soon?

[Silkywhiskers]

Yorkshire police presumably picked one of the very best dogs for their recent work in the UK, a black labrador, I wonder if she will be having a little trip to the Algarve soon?

They remain the best cadaver-finding equipment ever invented.

That's why they are used, world wide.

The first thing all these dog detractors would call for if they lost a child, would be sniffer dogs.  Everyone who bashes them would eat their words if they were ever in a position to actually need them themselves. 

Dogs "see" scent, which is why Eddie would not mistake Madeleine's cadaver.  He would no sooner mistake human cadaver for spoiled meat or nappies, than your or I would confuse blue and red.

[Brietta]

They remain the best cadaver-finding equipment ever invented.

That's why they are used, world wide.

The first thing all these dog detractors would call for if they lost a child, would be sniffer dogs.  Everyone who bashes them would eat their words if they were ever in a position to actually need them themselves. 

Dogs "see" scent, which is why Eddie would not mistake Madeleine's cadaver.  He would no sooner mistake human cadaver for spoiled meat or nappies, than your or I would confuse blue and red.

If the meat was pork ... and if the nappies contained something which had been expelled from a human body ... as they quite often do ... Eddie most certainly would alert.

Eddie's alerts in Haute de la Garenne tend to confirm that.

[pegasus]

This cadaver dog was on active duty with North Yorkshire Police at at least two locations in May 2014.
http://i2.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article7119015.ece/alternates/s1227b/JS36545767.jpg
I doubt that North Yorks police would spend so much money unless this technology is exceedingly accurate.
Maybe this black labrador will be having a foreign trip soon?

[Brietta]

OH. FOR. GODS. SAKE.

Yes, cadaver dogs are the best technology available to search and rescue teams and the police, EXCEPT IN PDL.

Link your claims or don't bother.

Thanks.

You are very welcome.

Indeed I was remiss in failing to post a cite ... that was because I made the assumption that informed posters would already be familiar with the established and indisputable fact that Eddie was trained using pork.

Wrongly as it turned out ... perhaps you should take the lesson and attribute and substantiate all the remarks you make ... unless it is your own opinion.

Report to PJ by Martin Grime re: Eddie & Keela search McCann case
09_VOLUME_IXa 09-Processo 9 pages 2473 to 2483
Eddie & Keela Martin Grimes Report
August 2007
CADAVER AND HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOGS
SEARCH ASSET PROFILES

Vol IX p. 2479
TRAINING

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States. These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two. That is not to say that this may not be possible in the future.

Vol. IX p. 2480
EVRD

'Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (E.V.R.D.) will search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the dog was conducted using human blood and stil born decomposing piglets. The importance of this is that the dog is introduced to the scent of a decomposing body NOT FOODSTUFF.

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/martin-grime-report-to-pj-mccann-case.html

[Brietta]

Quote from: Brietta on Today at 12:31:49 AM

You are very welcome.

Indeed I was remiss in failing to post a cite ... that was because I made the assumption that informed posters would already be familiar with the established and indisputable fact that Eddie was trained using pork.

Wrongly as it turned out ... perhaps you should take the lesson and attribute and substantiate all the remarks you make ... unless it is your own opinion.

    Report to PJ by Martin Grime re: Eddie & Keela search McCann case
    09_VOLUME_IXa 09-Processo 9 pages 2473 to 2483
    Eddie & Keela Martin Grimes Report
    August 2007
    CADAVER AND HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOGS
    SEARCH ASSET PROFILES

    Vol IX p. 2479
    TRAINING

 In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States. These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two. That is not to say that this may not be possible in the future.

    Vol. IX p. 2480
    EVRD

    'Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (E.V.R.D.) will search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the dog was conducted using human blood and stil born decomposing piglets. The importance of this is that the dog is introduced to the scent of a decomposing body NOT FOODSTUFF.

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/martin-grime-report-to-pj-mccann-case.html

The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.

[Silkywhiskers]

The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.

Are you suggesting someone left some decomposing piglets in 5a?

[Benice]

Are you suggesting someone left some decomposing piglets in 5a?

How do we know there wasn't residual odour coming from long since decomposed pigmeat underground - maybe deposited there from decades ago -before the apartment block was built?  Eddie's abilities meant he would have been quite capable of detecting such an old  scent.      I don't know how prevalent pigs are (or were) in Portugual but they featured quite strongly in Amaral's previous missing child case.

In the absence of any specific corroborating evidence - all the various reasons as to why Eddie alerted have to be considered and remain 'on the table'.

[pegasus]

Well maybe you should advise North Yorkshire Police that the dog they are deploying now (photo above) at great expense is actually a nappy and piglet dog and they have been conned ?

[pegasus]

In that scenario open carrying not inside anything seems so unlikely.
Eddie does not say the smith sighting is relevant, that is human deduction, which unlike Eddie, can be mistaken

[pathfinder73]

The dogs are coming back to track him so watch this space.