Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

[Carana]

What legal restraints currently prevent Grime from discussing the case now - is he actively involved in the investigation still?  And, why did he not take the opportunity to shed more light on his dogs' alerts when the case was closed all those years ago?

Former police officers aren't supposed to give details about any specific unsolved investigation that they were closely involved in outside of a court, are they?

[Mr Gray]

Former police officers aren't supposed to give details about any specific unsolved investigation that they were closely involved in outside of a court, are they?

I think you would be hard pressed to find any former officer who would make any comment about an ongoing case

[Carana]

I think you would be hard pressed to find any former officer who would make any comment about an ongoing case

Erm...

[Carana]

IMO there's a difference between a pundit giving an explanation in general terms and one who describes details of a specific case in which they were involved.

I have no problem with a doctor explaining a medical condition in general terms on a TV show, but I wouldn't expect that doctor to give details of a specific patient's medical history, at least not without the patient's consent.

[mercury]

IMO there's a difference between a pundit giving an explanation in general terms and one who describes details of a specific case in which they were involved.

I have no problem with a doctor explaining a medical condition in general terms on a TV show, but I wouldn't expect that doctor to give details of a specific patient's medical history, at least not without the patient's consent.

If you are an officer involved in a case and another country's media plus the two arguidos  have trashed and threatened you, well, I know what I would do...publish and be damned....good call overall

[Carana]

If you are an officer involved in a case and another country's media plus the two arguidos  have trashed and threatened you, well, I know what I would do...publish and be damned....good call overall

When did the two arguidos trash and threaten him prior to his public spoutings?

[mercury]

When did the two arguidos trash and threaten him prior to his public spoutings?

if you are looking for the Mccanns spoutings then search a bit more

[Mr Gray]

If you are an officer involved in a case and another country's media plus the two arguidos  have trashed and threatened you, well, I know what I would do...publish and be damned....good call overall

he did publish and he is certainly damned

[Carana]

if you are looking for the Mccanns spoutings then search a bit more

You'll have to help, Mercury.

The first time I ever heard Kate say anything about Amaral was after he'd published his book... unless you've found something. I don't recall Gerry saying anything about him at all prior to the book either.

So how could the reason he wrote it be a retaliation against their "trashing and threatening" him?





 05 Sep 2008

(snip)

 Speaking in an interview for the first time since they were formally cleared of any link to their daughter's disappearance, Mrs McCann criticised Mr Amaral's behaviour.

Asked about what she thought of 48-year-old Mr Amaral - who was sacked from the case last October - and his decision to publish a book about his experience, she replied: "It's a disgrace."

There has been little secret about the animosity between the McCanns and the Portuguese police over the investigation into Madeleine, but the couple has refrained from criticising them openly.

Since they were cleared of all involvement in July this year and given access to the police files in August, the couple's private investigators have continued to follow up potential leads.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2689367/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-brands-Portuguese-detective-a-disgrace.html

[mercury]

You'll have to help, Mercury.

The first time I ever heard Kate say anything about Amaral was after he'd published his book... unless you've found something. I don't recall Gerry saying anything about him at all prior to the book either.

So how could the reason he wrote it be a retaliation against their "trashing and threatening" him?





 05 Sep 2008

(snip)

 Speaking in an interview for the first time since they were formally cleared of any link to their daughter's disappearance, Mrs McCann criticised Mr Amaral's behaviour.

Asked about what she thought of 48-year-old Mr Amaral - who was sacked from the case last October - and his decision to publish a book about his experience, she replied: "It's a disgrace."

There has been little secret about the animosity between the McCanns and the Portuguese police over the investigation into Madeleine, but the couple has refrained from criticising them openly.

Since they were cleared of all involvement in July this year and given access to the police files in August, the couple's private investigators have continued to follow up potential leads.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2689367/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-brands-Portuguese-detective-a-disgrace.html

The clue is in the one but last paragraph you posted....all you have to do is substitute K&G McCann with UK media/PR gobs/relatives/diaries documentaries and books and G Amaral with PJ/Portugal and then Bob is your uncle

You are right though and I was wrong in that the Mccanns didn't utter a word on TV specifically against the SIO before hs book was launched, doesn't mean they could not stand him/other officers from day one or weren't involved in spreading stories/other (cough) activities

[Brietta]

Man convicted of killing Suzanne Pilley has claims against police upheld
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13787392.Man_convicted_of_killing_Suzanne_Pilley_has_claims_against_police_upheld/

I believe this is the first case in Scotland where residual scent found by dogs in two places was allowed to be heard in court.

I don't know if this forms part of the complaint about how evidence was collected prior to the trial ... I do know that no forensic evidence was produced and Ms Pilley's body has not been found.

[Alice Purjorick]

   Topic: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

http://barksar.org/Cadaver_Dogs_A_Search_Tool_for_Locating_Human_Remains.pdf
    
snip>>>>>The first dog trained specifically for cadaver searches was "Pearl", a Labrador Retriever trained and used by Trooper Jim Suffolk of the New York State Police Department.  The Connecticut State PoliceDepartment followed Trooper Suffolk’s lead in 1977 and the use of these dogs rapidly proved worthwhile. Their initial efforts showed that these canines were able to detect the presence of human remains above ground, as well as bodies buried up to several feet deep<<<<< snip

Given the first VRD appears to have been used nearly 40 years ago why would law enforcement agencies persevere in their use for such an extended period if they [VRDs] were unreliable?

Fist one to say Eddie or Keela is a daisy.

[stephen25000]

   Topic: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

http://barksar.org/Cadaver_Dogs_A_Search_Tool_for_Locating_Human_Remains.pdf
    
snip>>>>>The first dog trained specifically for cadaver searches was "Pearl", a Labrador Retriever trained and used by Trooper Jim Suffolk of the New York State Police Department.  The Connecticut State PoliceDepartment followed Trooper Suffolk’s lead in 1977 and the use of these dogs rapidly proved worthwhile. Their initial efforts showed that these canines were able to detect the presence of human remains above ground, as well as bodies buried up to several feet deep<<<<< snip

Given the first VRD appears to have been used nearly 40 years ago why would law enforcement agencies persevere in their use for such an extended period if they [VRDs] were unreliable?

Fist one to say Eddie or Keela is a daisy.

Nice one. 

[Alfred R Jones]

   Topic: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

http://barksar.org/Cadaver_Dogs_A_Search_Tool_for_Locating_Human_Remains.pdf
    
snip>>>>>The first dog trained specifically for cadaver searches was "Pearl", a Labrador Retriever trained and used by Trooper Jim Suffolk of the New York State Police Department.  The Connecticut State PoliceDepartment followed Trooper Suffolk’s lead in 1977 and the use of these dogs rapidly proved worthwhile. Their initial efforts showed that these canines were able to detect the presence of human remains above ground, as well as bodies buried up to several feet deep<<<<< snip



Given the first VRD appears to have been used nearly 40 years ago why would law enforcement agencies persevere in their use for such an extended period if they [VRDs] were unreliable?

Fist one to say Eddie or Keela is a daisy.

How many times have we heard this question asked, and how many times does it have to be answered before it sinks in I wonder? 

Where there is a body to be found, then these dogs are remarkably adept at finding them, that is why they continue to be used to this day.  When out searching for a body, if a dog alerts but no body is actually present then it's not the end of the world, the search continues in the hope and expectation that at the next alert the body will be discovered.  Often it is, sometimes not.  It's why (for example) people continue to use metal detectors to hunt for valuable objects buried beneath the ground - they won't always turn up the goods, but they are a valuable tool in helping to find them. 

[Mr Gray]

   Topic: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

http://barksar.org/Cadaver_Dogs_A_Search_Tool_for_Locating_Human_Remains.pdf
    
snip>>>>>The first dog trained specifically for cadaver searches was "Pearl", a Labrador Retriever trained and used by Trooper Jim Suffolk of the New York State Police Department.  The Connecticut State PoliceDepartment followed Trooper Suffolk’s lead in 1977 and the use of these dogs rapidly proved worthwhile. Their initial efforts showed that these canines were able to detect the presence of human remains above ground, as well as bodies buried up to several feet deep<<<<< snip

Given the first VRD appears to have been used nearly 40 years ago why would law enforcement agencies persevere in their use for such an extended period if they [VRDs] were unreliable?

Fist one to say Eddie or Keela is a daisy.

I agree that VRD dogs are very reliable
We have been through all this before
If there is a body they will find it