Author Topic: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?  (Read 380329 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1485 on: October 02, 2015, 08:31:26 PM »
Replying to my own post.

Any takers?

Why do you have this opposition to be being trained in America ?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1486 on: October 02, 2015, 08:57:36 PM »
the person who is totally mistaken ...who has got everything wrong is you Stephen...

US and UK trained...it's quite impressive isn't it

Not in  the slightest.

A claim has validity, only if you prove it.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1487 on: October 02, 2015, 09:01:19 PM »
Not in  the slightest.

A claim has validity, only if you prove it.

you have not proved your claims

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1488 on: October 02, 2015, 09:06:16 PM »
Are you suggesting that you are not always truthful?

thats rather a silly statement....everything I have said about myself is 100% true..apart from shooting pheasants of course

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1489 on: October 02, 2015, 09:23:21 PM »
What would you like to take? An accusation that despite three newspaper articles and Grimes own CV you are still calling him a liar?

Good luck with your libelling. It might bite you in the bum some day, now why would you risk that?

Ps SYP never denied he had been to the USA, so your claim is a bit flakey

For a question that specifically asked what training or preparation Eddie received to equip him for his duties as a police dog not to mention that he was trained on human remains in America is rather a startling omission, I'm sure you'd agree ....

Offline mercury

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1490 on: October 02, 2015, 09:26:28 PM »
For a question that specifically asked what training or preparation Eddie received to equip him for his duties as a police dog not to mention that he was trained on human remains in America is rather a startling omission, I'm sure you'd agree ....

What was the question exactly and what was the reply? Or did SYP just blank you?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1491 on: October 02, 2015, 09:27:41 PM »
What was the question exactly and what was the reply? Or did SYP just blank you?

Not my question, put by someone else.

Alas I don't have it, but I believe Carana does.

Offline mercury

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1492 on: October 02, 2015, 09:32:12 PM »
Not my question, put by someone else.

Alas I don't have it, but I believe Carana does.

Well perhaps carana can cut and paste the questions and answers then when she is next on and between you  try and prove your assertion that Eddie a) never worked with keela pre 2007 and also that Eddie never went to the USA either for training or to be deployed in cases, you might struggle

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1493 on: October 02, 2015, 09:34:22 PM »
Well perhaps carana can cut and paste the questions and answers then when she is next on and between you  try and prove your assertion that Eddie a) never worked with keela pre 2007 and also that Eddie never went to the USA either for training or to be deployed in cases, you might struggle

Eddie went to the States right enough.  Just not to be trained on human remains.

Offline mercury

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1494 on: October 02, 2015, 09:38:15 PM »
Eddie went to the States right enough.  Just not to be trained on human remains.

Well,
so what did he go for?

And also you will have to back up your claims with concrete evidence otherwise it remains your opinion


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1495 on: October 02, 2015, 09:44:48 PM »
Well,
so what did he go for?

And also you will have to back up your claims with concrete evidence otherwise it remains your opinion

Sam Parker:


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1496 on: October 02, 2015, 10:06:20 PM »
Something else of interest from the Sam Parker trial:

Scroll down to the part I underline.

Sounds, suspiciously like pseudo-scents to me ....

Dog Debate At Center Of Murder Case

Can a dog's nose be trusted enough to send a man to prison for the rest of his life?

That's a key question a jury may have to consider if Walker County Superior Court Judge Jon Wood allows certain testimony to be heard during the murder trial of Sam Parker next month. Judge Wood is holding a pre-trial motions hearing this week to decide what the jury will and won't hear.

Parker, a former sergeant with the LaFayette Police Department, is being held without bond accused of murdering his wife Teresa. She seemingly vanished more than two years ago leaving behind a family and career with Walker County 911. There is no evidence she has died, a body was never found and investigators have not found a murder weapon.

During a second day of testimony about so-called cadaver dogs, two specialists in that field explained how their dogs "hit" on a scent in Walker County that they say could be from a decomposing human body.

Lisa Higgins with the Louisiana Search & Rescue Dog Team said she was asked and paid to bring her Australian Shepherd "Maggie" to LaFayette to investigate a car being kept at the Walker County Sheriff's Department impound lot.

"Almost immediately I gave the command and she hit really hard, worked very, very hard inside the wheel well on the front driver's side and gave a full indication right there," Higgins said.

Higgins added Maggie also got excited about something when she sniffed around the back door on the passenger side of the car. But there is no evidence about what it was that excited Maggie and investigators so far have said they have not found any evidence to corroborate the dog's "hit."

Higgins said Maggie has been trained to sniff out the scent of a decomposing human body. But Maggie and other similar dogs can also "hit" on a decomposing pig, which testimony shows has the same odor and chemical make-up as a human cadaver.

Defense attorney Doug Woodruff asked Higgins about the accuracy of Maggie's nose and if there is any scientific proof that shows these type of dogs only get aroused by cadavers.

"Scientifically, no," Higgins replied.

Upon further cross examination Higgins said Maggie has only shown accuracy on occasions when other physical evidence points to where a body has been dumped.

We also saw video played in the courtroom to demonstrate how another dog, Eddie, found a sample pair of pants hidden in the Walker County Jail that was perfumed with a cadaver scent. Eddie is an English Springer Spaniel belonging to Martin Grime, a world-renown forensic K-9 expert based in the United Kingdom.

Grime testified he was paid $450 a day, plus travel and living expenses, by the FBI to search some areas in Walker County in connection with Teresa Parker's disappearance.

During a visit to Parker's home back in September 2007 Grime said he and Eddie sniffed around their garage.

"He immediately gave a positive bark response within the garage between a truck parked to the left of the entrance and a boat parked to the right," Grime said.

Grime added Eddie did not seem interested in the vehicles but in a scent that was wafting in the air, based on the way the dog held his nose upward. Grime said Eddie then "hit" on an abandoned house next door. Testimony shows that house was never repaired after a fire gutted the inside and killed a child several years ago.

During lengthy cross-examination Grime said there is no evidence to show Eddie smelled anything incriminating against or linked to Mr. Parker. Like Higgins, Grime said cadaver dogs can only prove useful when there is other evidence that corroborates the dog's "hits."

The FBI has a keen interest in the outcome of this case. If Parker is convicted the case could pave the legal way for future prosecutions where there is no evidence other than dog "hits" in connection with a person accused of murder.

Toward the end of the day Judge Wood learned that while Grime has international acclaim he has never testified as an expert witness in the United States.

Testimony ended Tuesday with a couple Georgia Bureau of Investigation agents saying Mr. Parker has always been cooperative with the investigation and allowed them to do whatever they wanted on his property.

A third day of testimony begins at 9:00 a.m. Wednesday.


http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/07/dog-debate-at-center-of-murder-case.html
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 11:00:25 PM by ferryman »

Offline mercury

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1497 on: October 02, 2015, 10:12:26 PM »
Something else of interest from the Sam Parker trial:

Scroll down to the part I underline.

Sounds, suspiciously like pseudo-scents to me ....

Dog Debate At Center Of Murder Case

Can a dog's nose be trusted enough to send a man to prison for the rest of his life?

That's a key question a jury may have to consider if Walker County Superior Court Judge Jon Wood allows certain testimony to be heard during the murder trial of Sam Parker next month. Judge Wood is holding a pre-trial motions hearing this week to decide what the jury will and won't hear.

Parker, a former sergeant with the LaFayette Police Department, is being held without bond accused of murdering his wife Teresa. She seemingly vanished more than two years ago leaving behind a family and career with Walker County 911. There is no evidence she has died, a body was never found and investigators have not found a murder weapon.

During a second day of testimony about so-called cadaver dogs, two specialists in that field explained how their dogs "hit" on a scent in Walker County that they say could be from a decomposing human body.

Lisa Higgins with the Louisiana Search & Rescue Dog Team said she was asked and paid to bring her Australian Shepherd "Maggie" to LaFayette to investigate a car being kept at the Walker County Sheriff's Department impound lot.

"Almost immediately I gave the command and she hit really hard, worked very, very hard inside the wheel well on the front driver's side and gave a full indication right there," Higgins said.

Higgins added Maggie also got excited about something when she sniffed around the back door on the passenger side of the car. But there is no evidence about what it was that excited Maggie and investigators so far have said they have not found any evidence to corroborate the dog's "hit."

Higgins said Maggie has been trained to sniff out the scent of a decomposing human body. But Maggie and other similar dogs can also "hit" on a decomposing pig, which testimony shows has the same odor and chemical make-up as a human cadaver.

Defense attorney Doug Woodruff asked Higgins about the accuracy of Maggie's nose and if there is any scientific proof that shows these type of dogs only get aroused by cadavers.

"Scientifically, no," Higgins replied.

Upon further cross examination Higgins said Maggie has only shown accuracy on occasions when other physical evidence points to where a body has been dumped.

We also saw video played in the courtroom to demonstrate how another dog, Eddie, found a sample pair of pants hidden in the Walker County Jail that was perfumed with a cadaver scent. Eddie is an English Springer Spaniel belonging to Martin Grime, a world-renown forensic K-9 expert based in the United Kingdom.

Grime testified he was paid $450 a day, plus travel and living expenses, by the FBI to search some areas in Walker County in connection with Teresa Parker's disappearance.

During a visit to Parker's home back in September 2007 Grime said he and Eddie sniffed around their garage.

"He immediately gave a positive bark response within the garage between a truck parked to the left of the entrance and a boat parked to the right," Grime said.

Grime added Eddie did not seem interested in the vehicles but in a scent that was wafting in the air, based on the way the dog held his nose upward. Grime said Eddie then "hit" on an abandoned house next door. Testimony shows that house was never repaired after a fire gutted the inside and killed a child several years ago.

During lengthy cross-examination Grime said there is no evidence to show Eddie smelled anything incriminating against or linked to Mr. Parker. Like Higgins, Grime said cadaver dogs can only prove useful when there is other evidence that corroborates the dog's "hits."

The FBI has a keen interest in the outcome of this case. If Parker is convicted the case could pave the legal way for future prosecutions where there is no evidence other than dog "hits" in connection with a person accused of murder.

Toward the end of the day Judge Wood learned that while Grime has international acclaim he has never testified as an expert witness in the United States.

Testimony ended Tuesday with a couple Georgia Bureau of Investigation agents saying Mr. Parker has always been cooperative with the investigation and allowed them to do whatever they wanted on his property.

A third day of testimony begins at 9:00 a.m. Wednesday.


http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/07/dog-debate-at-center-of-murder-case.html

A) boldening your entire  quotes is annoying, pointless, and in no way strengthens any argument if that's what you think it does,it probably has the opposite effect

B) Deflection 100 per cent

try and stay with the discussion, perhaps avoiding doing so says something......

Lastly leaving questions unanswered also says something

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1498 on: October 02, 2015, 10:14:50 PM »
A) boldening your entire  quotes is annoying, pointless, and in no way strengthens any argument if that's what you think it does,it probably has the opposite effect

B) Deflection 100 per cent

try and stay with the discussion, perhaps avoiding doing so says something......

When I quote something I either put it in bold or italics, to indicate that it is a quote.

I'm not remotely concerned about how others receive that ....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?
« Reply #1499 on: October 02, 2015, 10:16:13 PM »
When I quote something I either put it in bold or italics, to indicate that it is a quote.

I'm not remotely concerned about how others receive that ....

It would help if you used the quote function.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.