The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[jassi]

Sorry if I sounded accusatory.  I guess I was.   

The time to do a reconstruction was in the beginning, but it was refused, for spurious reasons that defeat me.  A year later they had all had enough of the leaks and the lies about all of them. And there were more leaks from PJ sources while The Rogs were going on and when Rebelo was out of Portugal.  That would put anyone off, especially as they were not legally obliged  to engage in what was increasingly looking like a stitch up of all of them. 
Would you have gone?

Very difficult to know when you are not in that situation, but on balance, if I knew myself to be blameless, then yes, I think I would.
I certainly wouldn't have given any consideration to protecting friends - this was, after all, a missing child.

[Carana]

I think Rebelo knew jolly well that it was a waste of time, and that he didn't expect this to come off, believing that by the failure to organize, it would reflect badly on The McCanns and leave The PJ smelling of roses.  Hence the not so subtle suggestion that The PJ were looking for discrepancies that had nothing to do with finding Madeleine, which was all far too late by then anyway.
A year later?  Don't make me laugh.

I found Rebelo to be a decent cop, actually, trying to wade through a mess that he'd inherited and putting a stop to the embarrasing leaks from the previous team. A re-enactment so late in the day wouldn't have produced a smoking gun (and the Met forensic timeline seems to support this), nor would it have cleared the T9 (with nearly everyone else there that evening absent).

[slartibartfast]

Thanks for that Albertini - but with hand on heart I still cannot see how it could be carried out with any accuracy 12 months after the event.    An accurate recon by TEN different people could not be guaranteed - or even expected IMO  - and as 'accuracy' was the key element required for it to be of any use - I really don't see the point of even trying.

As for their friends all being mega suspicious -  I find that totally understandable after their own experience of being viciously smeared by the PT media -  and after watching with horror as attempts were made to frame Kate and Gerry - why would anyone expect them to have the slightest trust in the PJ?

On top of that (as if that wasn't enough)  the fact that press intrusion could not be guaranteed, the fact that the McCanns were referred to as 'the offenders' in the correspondence  and especially the request 'not to bring their children' would have been more than enough to send my suspicions right through the roof!

Recons are usually carried out to hopefully jog the memories of unassociated members of the public or passers by who were in the same area at the time.    I didn't see any evidence that this was the aim of this proposed reconstruction.  So if it was me - I would be very suspicious as to what it's aims really were - as hoping to throw light on what happened to Madeleine didn't seem to be one of them

IMO, the reconstruction was to see if the "recorded" timelines taken as an indication of the general timescales could actually work rather than charge people because they were 5 minutes out with their stated times.

[Silkywhiskers]

She could have been temporarily hidden literally anywhere, from a dumpster to the beach to the road works to under the landscaping.

People were looking for a live child not a deceased one, it was very dark also so they mainly had to call her name instead of visibly LOOK.

Apart from her mother that is, who did neither.

[icabodcrane]

The Mccanns pressed the PJ for a reconstruction at the time of the abduction.

Their request was refused.  I wonder why?  >@@(*&)

I didn't know that 

Are you saying the McCanns   (  and their chums  )   offered  to take part in a police reconstruction, and that police rejected their offer   ? 

[John]

It is very clear from the responses made by those members of the tapas group who refused to return for a reconstruction that they were all singing from the same hymn sheet.

I was under the impression that cooperation by witnesses in a potential child murder case was mandatory within the EU and that they could be subpoenaed and compelled to return to the scene of the crime.  I wonder who pulled Rebelo's strings on that one?

[icabodcrane]

It is very clear from the responses made by those members of the tapas group who refused to return for a reconstruction that they were all singing from the same hymn sheet.

I was under the impression that cooperation by witnesses in a potential child murder case was mandatory within the EU and that they could be subpoenaed and compelled to return to the scene of the crime.  I wonder who pulled Rebelo's strings on that one?

Apparently not John  ...  well, not according to Kate McCann in her book anyway   :

"At that point the tone of the corresponence grew more brusque and what had seemed a request began to sound more like a summons.  Some people decided they wanted to take legal advice before agreeing to anything.  In the end there was no quorum and the plan was abandoned"

So,  as far as Kate tells it,  a  'summons'  to attend was out of the question,  and  in the end whether they attended or not was a matter of  a   quorum'  being reached amongst themselves

She makes it sound like they took a vote on it


I wonder which of the friends were ready and willing to go back,  without question   ...  do we know  ? 

[pathfinder73]

"Emma Loach in 2009 worked with us to produce a filmed reconstruction of the events surrounding Madeleine’s abduction."

Glad to see that an unbiased and fair reconstruction was finally done

[Albertini]

Apparently not John  ...  well, not according to Kate McCann in her book anyway   :

"At that point the tone of the corresponence grew more brusque and what had seemed a request began to sound more like a summons.  Some people decided they wanted to take legal advice before agreeing to anything.  In the end there was no quorum and the plan was abandoned"

So,  as far as Kate tells it,  a  'summons'  to attend was out of the question,  and  in the end whether they attended or not was a matter of  a   quorum'  being reached amongst themselves

She makes it sound like they took a vote on it


I wonder which of the friends were ready and willing to go back,  without question   ...  do we know  ?

And don't you think the way the Arguido conundrum in relation to taking part in the reconstruction was dealt with had all the hallmarks of lawyers fingers all over them?

In relation to the reconstruction it seems to me to be within the bounds of responsible policing for reconstructions to be a year or so after the event. Just look at crimewatch it has reconstructions of crimes more than 12 months old, yet there are no comments or complaints on here about that in other cases.

Funny that.

[The Singularity]

All this thread has gone to show is how valid Rebelo's request (refused by the McCann's via their spokesman and the rest of their group) for a reconstruction was.

It could once and for all resolved these issues.

No it wouldn't - a reconstruction would only prove that no one saw Madeleine being taken from the apartment, which we already know

[slartibartfast]

No it wouldn't - a reconstruction would only prove that no one saw Madeleine being taken from the apartment, which we already know

I disagree, the reconstruction would have allowed the timings to be verified and adjusted and thus identified points at which things may have happened.

[Albertini]

No it wouldn't - a reconstruction would only prove that no one saw Madeleine being taken from the apartment, which we already know

Who are you, or indeed the McCann's and their friends, to pass such judgment or indeed question the need of a process not only required, but deemed important by the official investigation into the case, on what is a perfectly legitimate process in the Portuguese penal code.

When have witnesses in any other major case been able to question and ultimately kill such a request ( and by extension the investigation itself) deemed important to the official investigation?

The sheer arrogance of it alone is simply breathtaking.

[Mr Gray]

Who are you, or indeed the McCann's and their friends, to pass such judgment or indeed question the need of a process not only required, but deemed important by the official investigation into the case, on what is a perfectly legitimate process in the Portuguese penal code.

When have witnesses in any other major case been able to question and ultimately kill such a request ( and by extension the investigation itself) deemed important to the official investigation?

The sheer arrogance of it alone is simply breathtaking.

I think that many people think the PJ handled the case very poorly....theres a lot of support for this argument

[Albertini]

I think that many people think the PJ handled the case very poorly....theres a lot of support for this argument

Only if you are a McCann supporter can you accept the legitimacy of killing the official investigation's request for a reconstruction.

There is no excuse for it. This is a fellow EU country not North Korea, despite what Team McCann may have tried to ingrain into people.

As you admitted the other day you believed Grime 100% and his alerts. As I asked you if you do believe the alerts 100% as an impartial investigator would it not be remiss of you to follow that line of enquiry through, partially by way of reconstruction to see if what the witnesses claimed happen did in fact actually happen?

You never answered my question of you in relation to what an impartial investigator should do faced with the alerts.

I don't want this thread to go back to the dogs but what I'm saying is that clearly there was a need for the investigation to try and iron out the inconsistencies and to see if what they say happened actually did.

The fact is the parents  and their friends killed it which is hugely suspicious, and the McCann's team came up with this ridiculous idea that they would be fitted up primarily because it was the only thing hey could say to avoid being accused publicly and openly of killing the investigation.

Supporters of the family lapped it up of course despite there being no evidence that it was a valid risk with Rebelo at the helm.

[The Singularity]

I disagree, the reconstruction would have allowed the timings to be verified and adjusted and thus identified points at which things may have happened.

And to what end would verifying the timelines be in finding out who took Madeleine when no one at the time saw her being taken away? The high profile press campaign and the investigations that took place at the time and continue to do so are following up on leads that were there irrespective of any reconstruction, probably because it's a young child involved and people want to help.

In the past I have read my posts on the internet by people who use the reconstruction to provide circumstantial “evidence” that the McCanns and their friends had a hand in this. Purely due to the fact that at the time no reconstruction took place, therefore: guilty.

However these are the same people who say Mr McCann’s body language and Mrs McCann’s lack of apparent emotion while on camera are also signs of their involvement, therefore: guilty.

And so it goes round on its merry way. In hindsight with cold cases reconstructions can be a powerful tool for creating new leads however at the time it is clear that a reconstruction would only confirm what we already know, that Madeleine was taken by someone who knew exactly what they were doing and must have known the area well to evade being seen and considered suspicious.