The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[stephen25000]

And what is that?

Do you know that I try very hard not to gainsay you because I believe that Moderators deserve some respect.  But you are now testing my patience.  This is why I believe that Moderators should not express personal opinions.

The McCanns never refused to go, so don't give me a pile of bullshit slipped in with the other rubbish. 

The friends of the McCanns refused to go.  And you can think what you like about that.  I might have gone if I was one of them, but I can promise you that it would have been of no use.  I would probably have smacked someone if they dared to tell me of what I already knew.

The Mccanns did not dispose of their daughter's body, and it would be an insult to any of their friends to suggest that they helped to do this.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

A bullshit reply.

They had every opportunity to return en masse.

Their employers would not object for obvious reasons.

As to what happened to Madeleine, YOU DON'T KNOW.

' I would probably have smacked someone if they dared to tell me of what I already knew.'

That would assume they would tell the truth.

[Albertini]

And what is that?

Do you know that I try very hard not to gainsay you because I believe that Moderators deserve some respect.  But you are now testing my patience.  This is why I believe that Moderators should not express personal opinions.

The McCanns never refused to go, so don't give me a pile of bullshit slipped in with the other rubbish. 

The friends of the McCanns refused to go.  And you can think what you like about that.  I might have gone if I was one of them, but I can promise you that it would have been of no use.  I would probably have smacked someone if they dared to tell me of what I already knew.

The Mccanns did not dispose of their daughter's body, and it would be an insult to any of their friends to suggest that they helped to do this.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

As i stated the other day. At least you can blame the lawyers for being the sh*ts here by them blocking their return.

Your position means it's their friends who are the sh*ts for leaving a child to her fate.

How damning

[Mr Gray]

At the end of the day a child was missing but her parents and friends were not prepared to put their asses on a plane and return for a reconstitution of the events of 3rd May 2007.  Regardless of the pathetic excuses put forward on their behalf, their ultimate refusal to cooperate must be seen for what it is.

  It is seen for what it is...the right thing to do as it would have served no purpose....

[Albertini]

Yet more rubbish.  Don't you see that I don't care if The McCanns went back or not.  It was always going to be a waste of time and money.
And if it was so bloody important, why didn't Rebelo insist?  EAW notwithstanding.  Rebelo would have won that on the grounds that they were Arguidos.

Do you have absolutely no conception of EU Law?

The rest of The Taps Crew were not Arguidos, and could not be compelled to do anything.  They didn't even have to submit themselves to Rogatory Interviews.  It was their right to refuse.

No it's not rubbish. It's actually correct if you look at the dates of the comment and the dates of requests.

Rebelo could i believe insist the McCann's went back under their Arguido status. He had no power to insist the Tapas went back. As was stated he needed all of them over there in order to complete it.

If the PJ were so intent on fitting up why didn't they fabricate evidence against the people they needed back there? Why didn't they fabricate evidence against the Tapas lot to get what they wanted and get them over there as accessories?

Answer: because they had no intention, nor would they be allowed to fit anyone up.

[Benice]

In view of the following quote - can someone explain how an accurate recon. could take place if the 10 participants could not give accurate times of when they did things to begin with?

b]Quote
The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circumstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.  unquote[/b]

Unless JT got up from the table - 12 months later - at the exact same time she did on the 3rd, May and Gerry left the apartment at exactly the same time as he did on 3rd May and Jez faithfully reproduced his time of setting off on his walk on 3rd May -  it's an impossible task imo.

We are talking about minutes and seconds being of vital importance here.    They only had to be half a minute adrift with their estimates of what time they had set off - and Gerry could have already turned back into the OC before Jez arrived - or  Jayne could still be sitting at the table when Gerry returned, or -  if she went too early she could have been up the top of the road before Gerry left the apartment - and before Jez arrived on the scene.

The chances by sheer coincidence of these three people reproducing their exact movements of the 3rd May with the required accuracy for them all to be in the places they said they were at the same time are miniscule.

In this particular recon. it was crucial that Gerry, Jez and Jayne remembered the exact times they had done things for an accurate reproduction of what they did on 3rd May 12 months earlier to be possible    But they only knew approximately what time they did things -  and so IMO there is not a snowballs chance in hell  that the following  'aim' could be achieved  in just one attempt.

b]Quote
The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circumstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.  unquote[/b]

Say they had decided to return and one of the above scenarios happened - then bearing in mind that they were only to have one go at the recon. - what would the PJ's conclusions have been - particularly if Jez and JT had pointed out them before they started that they could not be sure of the times they did things?

Pure speculation on my part, but I think the PJ knew the group would not return - in fact they were banking on that being case.  IMO it was a face-saving exercise which gave them a reason to shelve the case but shift some of the responsibility for that decision elsewhere.

[Mr Gray]

No it's not rubbish. It's actually correct if you look at the dates of the comment and the dates of requests.

Rebelo could i believe insist the McCann's went back under their Arguido status. He had no power to insist the Tapas went back. As was stated he needed all of them over there in order to complete it.

If the PJ were so intent on fitting up why didn't they fabricate evidence against the people they needed back there? Why didn't they fabricate evidence against the Tapas lot to get what they wanted and get them over there as accessories?

Answer: because they had no intention, nor would they be allowed to fit anyone up.

It is purely a matter of opinion...I think the tapas group and the parents did the right thing ....you think they didn't...its just opinion.  You say the PJ were experts...many others say they were totally inept

[stephen25000]

It is purely a matter of opinion...I think the tapas group and the parents did the right thing ....you think they didn't...its just opinion.  You say the PJ were experts...many others say they were totally inept

'many others'

i.e. A few die hard backers of the mccanns.

When people are presented to the true picture of events, and not by the lies and half truths in the press, it becomes a different ball game.

[Mr Gray]

I leave the 'talking rollocks ' to you.

You are a master of the obtuse and irrelevant.

In my opinion the tapas were right not to return...others may disagree..its a matter of opinion...simple

[stephen25000]

In my opinion the tapas were right not to return...others may disagree..its a matter of opinion...simple

They evaded the reconstruction.

You only do that if you have something to hide.

[Mr Gray]

They evaded the reconstruction.

You only do that if you have something to hide.

matter of opinion

[stephen25000]

matter of opinion

NO.

Simple logic.

[slartibartfast]

You have already stated that it is accepted the witness statements are notoriously inaccurate, that is why PT has reconstructions as part of its legal system. It allows the known statements to be put together and reasonable adjustments made to give a coherent sequence of events.

The guilty flee where no man pursues.

In view of the following quote - can someone explain how an accurate recon. could take place if the 10 participants could not give accurate times of when they did things to begin with?

b]Quote
The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circumstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.  unquote[/b]

Unless JT got up from the table - 12 months later - at the exact same time she did on the 3rd, May and Gerry left the apartment at exactly the same time as he did on 3rd May and Jez faithfully reproduced his time of setting off on his walk on 3rd May -  it's an impossible task imo.

We are talking about minutes and seconds being of vital importance here.    They only had to be half a minute adrift with their estimates of what time they had set off - and Gerry could have already turned back into the OC before Jez arrived - or  Jayne could still be sitting at the table when Gerry returned, or -  if she went too early she could have been up the top of the road before Gerry left the apartment - and before Jez arrived on the scene.

The chances by sheer coincidence of these three people reproducing their exact movements of the 3rd May with the required accuracy for them all to be in the places they said they were at the same time are miniscule.

In this particular recon. it was crucial that Gerry, Jez and Jayne remembered the exact times they had done things for an accurate reproduction of what they did on 3rd May 12 months earlier to be possible    But they only knew approximately what time they did things -  and so IMO there is not a snowballs chance in hell  that the following  'aim' could be achieved  in just one attempt.

b]Quote
The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circumstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.  unquote[/b]

Say they had decided to return and one of the above scenarios happened - then bearing in mind that they were only to have one go at the recon. - what would the PJ's conclusions have been - particularly if Jez and JT had pointed out them before they started that they could not be sure of the times they did things?

Pure speculation on my part, but I think the PJ knew the group would not return - in fact they were banking on that being case.  IMO it was a face-saving exercise which gave them a reason to shelve the case but shift some of the responsibility for that decision elsewhere.

[Mr Gray]

the arguido status gave the mccanns the right to silence...how could they demonstrate their innocence whilst still retaining their right to silence...they couldn't. The AR should not have criticised them for maintain the right to silence

[stephen25000]

the arguido status gave the mccanns the right to silence...how could they demonstrate their innocence whilst still retaining their right to silence...they couldn't. The AR should not have criticised them for maintain the right to silence

Easy answer, they could have told the whole truth at the start.

IMO of course.

[Mr Gray]

Easy answer, they could have told the whole truth at the start.

IMO of course.

they did