The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[Lyall]

LOL at urgency.  A reconstruction 12 months after the event designed purely to test the McCanns' story was not ever going to demonstrate their innocence or find the missing child.  I can see that, the McCanns and their friends INCLUDING Jez Wilkins could see that, why on earth are you and your fellow "sceptics" unable to?

So you refuse to go back and thereby end the only investigation looking for the young girl who may be being held in indescribably awful conditions?

Spin it whichever way you want - and I know you will - but Madeleine's parents have a very poor record.

[Alfred R Jones]

The clue is perhaps in my last sentence.

By having the players on site, they would have been able to advise and comment on exactly where they were at certain times ( and demonstrate by going through the motions). Had they been absent, errors would have been less obvious as there would only have been written statements to go on - and we know how unreliable these can be, particularly in translation.

And how would any of the above help find the perpetrator(s) who took Madeleine?

[jassi]

It was ti advance the investigation by checking and confirming the limited information available. Standard investigative practice, I imagine.

[John]

OK - please explain how a reconstruction of the movement of 10 people, none of whom have an inkling as to what happened to Madeleine, would help to find her?

And you know this how Alfie?

[Alfred R Jones]

And you know this how Alfie?

Sigh.  round and round we go.  Was the reconstruction about finding a child or an attempt to provide evidence to support the PJ's thesis?  I say the latter, some here say the former.  Which do you say?

[John]

And how would any of the above help find the perpetrator(s) who took Madeleine?

We will never know now because of the way it was torpedoed.   The whole point of a reconstitution is to retrace the movements of witnesses and others in an attempt to recreate the events on that fateful evening.  A reconstruction will reveal if someone is missing or if someone is not where they said they were at the requisite time.

As already pointed out, reconstructions are common practice within all police forces.  What isn't common practice however is for witnesses to refuse to cooperate. 

[John]

Sigh.  round and round we go.  Was the reconstruction about finding a child or an attempt to provide evidence to support the PJ's thesis?  I say the latter, some here say the former.  Which do you say?

I ask again, how do you know none of the 10 people had an inkling?

To answer your question, the recon was about discovering what happened to Madeleine and regardless of where that journey took them, the police had a moral duty to pursue it.

[Alfred R Jones]

We will never know now because of the way it was torpedoed.   The whole point of a reconstitution is to retrace the movements of witnesses and others in an attempt to recreate the events on that fateful evening.  A reconstruction will reveal if someone is missing or if someone is not where they said they were at the requisite time.

As already pointed out, reconstructions are common practice within all police forces.  What isn't common practice however is for witnesses to refuse to cooperate.

What others were invited to take part in this reconstruction??

[Alfred R Jones]

I ask again, how do you know none of the 10 people had an inkling?

To answer your question, the recon was about discovering what happened to Madeleine and regardless of where that journey took them, the police had a moral duty to pursue it.

OK - I'm going to try once more.  If the reconstruction was about trying to find Madeleine it would have failed especially if all of those taking part had no idea what had happened and all that was being re-enacted were the movements of a bunch of innocent people coming and going.  Even if some of the participants HAD known what had happened, the reconstruction isn't suddenly going to go left-field with one of them re-enacting hiding a child's corpse along the way (I wouldn't have thought).

If the reconstruction was about trying to find evidence of wrong-doing by one or more of the group it would have failed also, because how would the police be able to state categorically that any glaring inconsistencies in the timeline re-enactment were not simply down to honest human memory failure?  A reconstruction of the movements of these people as per their witness statements isn't suddenly  going to shed light on the identity of Smithman is it?  Or show Madeleine falling off a sofa, in a Calpol induced haze fgs.

The McCanns friends would almost certainly have come to the conclusions that I have come to above and therefore questioned the validity of the whole exercise.  They  would have seen it for what it was - a last ditch attempt to try and scrape together a case against the arguidos and on that basis who can blame them for not wanting to take part.  If any of them genuinely thought a reconstruction would have helped Madeleine I've no doubt they would have been there in an instant.

[lordpookles]

Interesting points Alfred. Many points up for debate obviously - though I'd like to know do you truly believe the investigation at that point was only about pursuing the McCanns and the Tapas 7? There could be no way even with dogged cooperation of the parents and others they could have influenced the investigation to pursue alternatives?

So if that is the case what has changed in the intervening years that now the PJ do not consider the McCanns suspects or at least they say that is the case I believe? Something changed behind the scenes perhaps that has altered their thinking?

[John]

OK - I'm going to try once more.  If the reconstruction was about trying to find Madeleine it would have failed especially if all of those taking part had no idea what had happened and all that was being re-enacted were the movements of a bunch of innocent people coming and going.  Even if some of the participants HAD known what had happened, the reconstruction isn't suddenly going to go left-field with one of them re-enacting hiding a child's corpse along the way (I wouldn't have thought).

If the reconstruction was about trying to find evidence of wrong-doing by one or more of the group it would have failed also, because how would the police be able to state categorically that any glaring inconsistencies in the timeline re-enactment were not simply down to honest human memory failure?  A reconstruction of the movements of these people as per their witness statements isn't suddenly  going to shed light on the identity of Smithman is it?  Or show Madeleine falling off a sofa, in a Calpol induced haze fgs.

The McCanns friends would almost certainly have come to the conclusions that I have come to above and therefore questioned the validity of the whole exercise.  They  would have seen it for what it was - a last ditch attempt to try and scrape together a case against the arguidos and on that basis who can blame them for not wanting to take part.  If any of them genuinely thought a reconstruction would have helped Madeleine I've no doubt they would have been there in an instant.

That was quick!

Fair points but not the whole story.   There were a lot more people involved in the reconstitutions, including other guests, staff including the night creche staff, parents who used the night creche and other witnesses who were in the town that night.  This exercise was not limited to the tapas-9 but they were the principal players.  By refusing to take part they effectively destroyed any legitimacy the rest of reconstruction could have achieved.  Their refusal had very far reaching consequences for the investigation.

I honestly believe that those who refused to assist in this case were very badly advised.  They will have to live with that decision for a very long time.

[Alfred R Jones]

That was quick!

Fair points but not the whole story.   There were a lot more people involved in the reconstitutions, including other guests, staff including the night creche staff, parents who used the night creche and other witnesses who were in the town that night.  This exercise was not limited to the tapas-9 but they were the principal players.  By refusing to take part they effectively destroyed any legitimacy the rest of reconstruction could have achieved.  Their refusal had very far reaching consequences for the investigation.

I honestly believe that those who refused to assist in this case were very badly advised.  They will have to live with that decision for a very long time.

Who else apart from the Tapas Group and Jez Wilkins was asked (and agreed) to take part then? 

[Alfred R Jones]

Interesting points Alfred. Many points up for debate obviously - though I'd like to know do you truly believe the investigation at that point was only about pursuing the McCanns and the Tapas 7? There could be no way even with dogged cooperation of the parents and others they could have influenced the investigation to pursue alternatives?

So if that is the case what has changed in the intervening years that now the PJ do not consider the McCanns suspects or at least they say that is the case I believe? Something changed behind the scenes perhaps that has altered their thinking?

I can't say what has changed their perspective.  Maybe they just went back to the beginning and approached all the evidence again with a more open-minded approach.  I do believe at the point of the proposed reconstruction that the investigation had more or less run out of steam and the reconstruction was purely designed to test the McCanns and their friends and nothing about trying to find Madeleine.

[John]

Who else apart from the Tapas Group and Jez Wilkins was asked (and agreed) to take part then?

Although central to events, the case is much more than the tapas-9 plus one.  The whole point of the exercise would have been to verify statements and create an accurate picture of who was where and when.

I know some think that that could not be achieved but in reality when people are taken back to the scene of events it is remarkable what little details come to them.  Participants in a reconstruction will be conferring and comparing notes and that in itself helps memory recall. A reconstitution is an excellent method for achieving agreement as to events and their timing.

I do believe at the point of the proposed reconstruction that the investigation had more or less run out of steam and the reconstruction was purely designed to test the McCanns and their friends and nothing about trying to find Madeleine.

It would have stalled certainly if the abduction theory was going nowhere and now, nearly eight years on, it's still going nowhere.

[Carew]

Dashed bad form, too............some of them calling themselves Dr...........Unlike the real genuine Drs. McCann