Are 'Murder by Stranger' victims ever removed from the scene of the crime?

[Cariad]

We have been discussing DCI Andy Redwood's recent comments of this case, namely that Madeline may not have been alive when she left the apartment.

 I'm curious to hear of any other cases in which a stranger has entered a property, committed murder and then taken the corpse with them when they left.

I can't think of a single one and Google hasn't been much help either.

I would very much appreciate any examples people could provide.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I can't think of an example either, Cariad, and it will be interesting to see what we can come up with.

What would be the reason for someone doing such a thing?

It might help the 'abductor' in removing certain forensic evidence from the scene, but on the other hand, taking the body would surely present him with a lot more problems.

[ferryman]

We have been discussing DCI Andy Redwood's recent comments of this case, namely that Madeline may not have been alive when she left the apartment.

 I'm curious to hear of any other cases in which a stranger has entered a property, committed murder and then taken the corpse with them when they left.

I can't think of a single one and Google hasn't been much help either.

I would very much appreciate any examples people could provide.

Diametric contradiction in terms.

There cannot be an "abduction" of anyone who is dead, only an attempt to conceal the body.

Dr Cripin comes to mind ...

In fact, much more recent, Adrian Prout ...

[jassi]

Diametric contradiction in terms.

There cannot be an "abduction" of anyone who is dead, only an attempt to conceal the body.

Dr Cripin comes to mind ...

In fact, much more recent, Adrian Prout ...

Yes. I think this may have been mentioned a while ago on another thread  - needless to say there was disagreement. 

[Mr Gray]

there was a case recently in the middle east where a british  women was raped and murdered...the body was taken from the scene and burnt in the desert to try and destroy all forensic evidence...they didn't succeed and have been arrested

[Cariad]

Diametric contradiction in terms.

There cannot be an "abduction" of anyone who is dead, only an attempt to conceal the body.

Dr Cripin comes to mind ...

In fact, much more recent, Adrian Prout ...

I've just Googled both Crippen and Prout, both were suspected/convicted of murdering someone they knew.

I'm sure there are many examples of people moving the body of a known victim. I'm interested in a case of a stranger doing the same.

Strangers who commit crimes outside will conceal a body too. It's an example of a stranger committing a murder/manslaughter inside someone else's property and then taking the body with them that would be helpful.

This has been suggested in this case. It would also allow the EVRD alerts to be ignored as the time scale could be within the 50 minutes that the Mccanns did not see their daughter, before discovering her missing.

If you find the word 'abduction' a problem, please ignore it.

If it's a problem, maybe a mod could change the thread title? Possibly 'removed' would be better?

[Cariad]

I've just Googled both Crippen and Prout, both were suspected/convicted of murdering someone they knew.

I'm sure there are many examples of people moving the body of a known victim. I'm interested in a case of a stranger doing the same.

Strangers who commit crimes outside will conceal a body too. It's an example of a stranger committing a murder/manslaughter inside someone else's property and then taking the body with them that would be helpful.

This has been suggested in this case. It would also allow the EVRD alerts to be ignored as the time scale could be within the 50 minutes that the Mccanns did not see their daughter, before discovering her missing.




If you find the word 'abduction' a problem, please ignore it.

If it's a problem, maybe a mod could change the thread title? Possibly 'removed' would be better?
[/quote

Undoubtedly.  As for Crippen there are those who believe that Ethel Le Neve was the real instigator such as Agatha Christie who used the Crippen case as the background for her novel ' Ms. McGinty's Dead'

Having now had a Google of Ethel Le Neve too, she was still someone known to the victim, we're looking for a stranger who removes a body from the victims property.

This is something that many here have suggested happened since Any Redwoods "may not have been live when she left the apartment" yet no one has supplied another case in which this has happened?

What are people basing this belief on?

[ferryman]

Cariad  I've finally picked up on the story - it happened in Llandudno another seaside resort - and some others including abduction from the bath.  No corpses luckily but all involved strangers.I'm getting a list together of the sites so you can check them out for yourself.

Another thing I picked up was that on average 500 children are abducted annually in the UK though many are parental.

The abduction from the bath was Peter Voisey's victim.

Thankfully she survived her ordeal.

[Cariad]

Cariad  I've finally picked up on the story - it happened in Llandudno another seaside resort - and some others including abduction from the bath.  No corpses luckily but all involved strangers.I'm getting a list together of the sites so you can check them out for yourself.

Another thing I picked up was that on average 500 children are abducted annually in the UK though many are parental.

I know about the bath one, though I thought his name was Craig something....

I appreciate you looking Promotor, the thing is, what I'm really interested in is cases of a body being removed after a stranger has killed someone in there own property, as some have suggested may have happened in this case.

I've probably caused confusion by using the term 'abducted'...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4579802.stm That's the bath one. I warn you, it's harrowing!

[slartibartfast]

Cariad  I've finally picked up on the story - it happened in Llandudno another seaside resort - and some others including abduction from the bath.  No corpses luckily but all involved strangers.I'm getting a list together of the sites so you can check them out for yourself.

As you say, no corpses.

[Cariad]

Cariad


I picked up more on the girl in the tent story form this website which would seem to be a forerunner of our own.

Howard Hughes - INNOCENT - Fighting miscarriages of justice
www.innocent.org.uk/cases/howardhughes/index.html   Cached
... who went missing from a tent in her ... could be abducted from this position by a stranger without ... have left the tent herself before being abducted.

Might be a thought for a future thread

I remember that! She was having a sleepover in her garden! It was horrendous! It's bed time for me, I read the details in the morning.

Night all.

[Benice]

I know about the bath one, though I thought his name was Craig something....

I appreciate you looking Promotor, the thing is, what I'm really interested in is cases of a body being removed after a stranger has killed someone in there own property, as some have suggested may have happened in this case.

I've probably caused confusion by using the term 'abducted'...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4579802.stm That's the bath one. I warn you, it's harrowing!

I don't follow your logic here.   Are you saying that if something hasn't happened thus far - then it never can happen?         There must have been a time in the case of the person who assaulted children in their beds in Portugal that he had never assaulted a 7 year old.   But then he did.

There has to be a first time for everything.

[Carana]

From another thread


European Commission – Directorate-General for Justice
Missing children in the European Union Mapping, data collection and statistics
(2013)

http://resourcecentre.savethechildren.se/sites/default/files/documents/1709_missing_children_study_2013_en_original_1.pdf

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3542.255

An issue, IMO, is that even what the police record can be scanty and the media only pick up on a few cases. Unless the circumstances of a missing child are known, the child is simply missing. The cases we tend to hear about are those that the media find particularly newsworthy (or rather likely to sell extra copies), or if there is a particular campaign launched. And even then, it depends on the languages that we understand and can google.

[Brietta]

Previous Article Published 8/27/12 →
Isabella Tennant, 5, was allegedly murdered by a 16-year-old family friend,  John Freeman, in her grandmothers home.
An upstate teen killed a 5-year-old girl he was babysitting “with his bare  hands” and, with the help of a friend, bagged her body and dumped it in an alleyway garbage can, police said.
Little Isabella Tennant’s slain body was found in at the bottom of a trash  can near downtown Niagara Falls at around 9 a.m. on Monday, a few hours after her family reported her missing, authorities said.

A five-year-old girl who disappeared from her grandmother‘s house was found dead in a garbage can down a NY alley yesterday. (Aug. 27th, 2012) A 16-year-old boy, described as a ‘trusted family friend’, was named as a person of interest in the death of Isabella Sarah Tennant, according to police. The girl was last seen at midnight at her grandmother’s home on 6th Street in the City of Niagara Falls, New York on Sunday night. Her body was found, around 12 hours later, stuffed into a garbage bag and dumped two streets away between 3rd and 4th. The girl’s grandmother was known for helping troubled children and the 16-year-old regularly came to the house, according to Wgrz.com.
Police were tipped off to the location of the child’s body by another 16-year-old.
No weapon was found at the scene but there were indications of trauma. The 16-year-old was expected to be charged with second-degree murder, according to sources.
Police were releasing no further information at present. 
A neighbor who was also at the grandmother’s house and was one of the last people to see five-year-old Isabella had also been spoken to by police as a person of interest.
The girl who had blue eyes and blonde hair was last seen wearing pink pyjamas with black stars.
Neighbors had combed the area late into the night and police brought in search dogs.
The girl was being cared for by her grandmother while her mother, of Cheektowaga, worked at Player’s nightclub in Niagara Falls.

SOURCE: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194378/Missing-year-old-girl-dead-alley-teenage-boy-arrested-Niagara-Falls-New-York.html

[a.baker]

David McGreavy. He killed the children he was babysitting and then took them and impaled them on the neighbours railings. I guess though this doesn't count as he was the lodger of the childrens parents and therefore not a stranger. Horrific case!