G McCann - The antihistamine drug Terfenadine and its side effects.

[Serendipity]

Interestingly, Terfenadine the 'named patient basis only'drug that neither of GM's doctors arranged for him to have  was withdrawn in 1999 because "...second-generation antihistamines mizolastine and terfenadine are particularly prone to cause ventricular arrhythmias"

If Madeleine had  very mild CHARGE syndrome and accidentally took some of daddies withdrawn tablets thinking they were sweeties, the effects would be fatal.

C - Coloboma of the eye, central nervous system anomalies
H - Heart defects
A - Atresia of the choanae
R - Retardation of growth and/or development
G - Genital and/or urinary defects (Hypogonadism)
E - Ear anomalies and/or deafness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHARGE_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terfenadine

"Terfenadine-containing drugs were subsequently removed from the Canadian market in 1999,[4] and are no longer available for prescription in the UK.[5]

Source for [5] Terfenadine- General Practice notebook from GPnotebook.co.uk"

------------------------------------

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/terfenadine-side-effects.html

Side effects of Terfenadine include drowsiness

----------------------------------

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Antihistamines.htm Last Checked: 19/01/2012

"...second-generation antihistamines mizolastine and terfenadine are particularly prone to cause ventricular arrhythmias (predominantly ventricular tachycardia and torsades de pointes).[4] This is more likely to occur where a relatively high dose is being taken or where there is hepatic cytochrome P450 impairment, both of which raise the plasma concentration of the drug. Of the first-generation drugs, alimemazine, hydroxyzine and promethazine have been implicated as causing this complication. For this reason, terfenadine and astemizole have been WITHDRAWN."

Original Author: Dr Gurvinder Rull Current Version: Dr Gurvinder Rull    Peer Reviewer: Prof Cathy Jackson
Last Checked: 19/01/2012

--------------------------------------

Terfenadine is not found in Mims Prescribery which is used by medical practitioners and is classed as their bible http://www.mims.co.uk/

It can be given to patients but only on a Named Patient Basis/Named Patient supply and the GP has certain liabilities as detailed further down.

http://www.gpnotebook.com/simplepage.cfm?ID=-1603600346

"Notes:

terfenadine is only available in the UK on a named-patient basis through specialist importers. There are no longer any licensed preparations containing terfenadine available in the UK (November 2005)"

-------------------------------------

"Procedures for Named Patient Supply
There are a number of regulatory processes that need to be adhered to:
• An unlicensed medicine can only be requested by a doctor, (SI 2005
No. 765 allows supplementary prescribers to prescribe unlicensed
medicines) on a named patient basis. The pharmacist must ensure
the prescribing clinician is aware that the medicine is unlicensed.
Legally, if there is another licensed preparation available, then this
should be offered and used."

Source: http://www.oncologynews.biz/pdf/oct_nov/ON_ON06_08.pdf (used for definition)

“Named patient basis prescribing is a scheme which allows a doctor to prescribe an unlicensed drug to a particular `named patient'. It is only an option for drugs whose manufacturer is prepared to release it on this basis, and has to be arranged by the doctor on an individual basis. Some companies are unwilling to release unapproved drugs in this way.

The next step is for your doctor to find out what conditions are attached to the use of the drug. The drug company may require you to have passed certain medical tests before providing the drug, in order to avoid damaging side-effects."

"The doctor must inform the patient that the drug has unproven benefits and that there are unknown risks attached to the use of the drug. This protects a doctor against liability. A GP can only be proved liable if he/she has not taken reasonable steps to treat you according to his/her experience and knowledge of the particular illness. This distributes the responsibility between you and your doctor when choosing an experimental therapy, but doesn't protect you against incompetence."

Source http://tripanswers.tripdatabase.co.uk/Answer.aspx?qid=1390


Note

Neither of G McCann's GPs mentioned that they arranged for him to have Terfenadine in their statements but as a named patient basis oly drug, they would be required to declare that they had done.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RICHARD_SCHOFIELD.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PH-HU.htm

[insider]

I was researching the allegations surrounding Calpol when I came across this post by Serendipity which opens up a whole new perspective on the question of could Madeleine have taken non prescription drugs?   What I would like to know however is why a cardiologist had these drugs and was using them routinely for hay fever when there were serious side effects detected in their usage?   Drugs which by the way had to be specially imported from abroad?

Did Madeleine get her hands on these drugs, did she succumb to their effects, did her parents panic ???  Is this one myth too far for the myth busters?

[Alfred R Jones]

I don't know the answer to the questions you pose Insider, but I would like to pose another question - why, if your child accidentally took your hayfever medicine thinking it was sweeties, would you concoct an elaborate plot to cover up her death and involve most of your friends in the cover-up?  And why would you agree to cover-up for a friend in such a heinous lie?

[insider]

I don't know the answer to the questions you pose Insider, but I would like to pose another question - why, if your child accidentally took your hayfever medicine thinking it was sweeties, would you concoct an elaborate plot to cover up her death and involve most of your friends in the cover-up?  And why would you agree to cover-up for a friend in such a heinous lie?

Fear of the consequences would be the natural response.    Everything to lose makes people do some strange things and the friends need never have known.   

[Alfred R Jones]

Fear of the consequences would be the natural response.    Everything to lose makes people do some strange things and the friends need never have known.

I don't think the "McCanns cover-up"  theory works without at least a couple of the friends' involvement.  One would have to question why they would agree to it. 

[Benice]

I was researching the allegations surrounding Calpol when I came across this post by Serendipity which opens up a whole new perspective on the question of could Madeleine have taken non prescription drugs?   What I would like to know however is why a cardiologist had these drugs and was using them routinely for hay fever when there were serious side effects detected in their usage?   Drugs which by the way had to be specially imported from abroad?

Did Madeleine get her hands on these drugs, did she succumb to their effects, did her parents panic ???  Is this one myth too far for the myth busters?

If Madeleine had taken Gerry's drugs - don't you think they would have been the first thing they got rid of - if they intended to cover up what had happened?  Surely the drugs would have been taken away along with the body to this 'unfindable' place which the McCanns miraculously knew about - within walking distance of 5A - but which the biggest search in the history of Portugal couldn't find.   Or ......simply flushed down the loo?

[Mr Gray]

If Madeleine had taken Gerry's drugs - don't you think they would have been the first thing they got rid of - if they intended to cover up what had happened?  Surely the drugs would have been taken away along with the body to this 'unfindable' place which the McCanns miraculously knew about - within walking distance of 5A - but which the biggest search in the history of Portugal couldn't find.   Or ......simply flushed down the loo?

Of course the drugs would have been quickly disposed of if this was the case...a non starter

[stephen25000]

Of course the drugs would have been quickly disposed of if this was the case...a non starter

Likewise the non-independent drug testing carried out a few months later was irrelevant.

[sadie]

I was researching the allegations surrounding Calpol when I came across this post by Serendipity which opens up a whole new perspective on the question of could Madeleine have taken non prescription drugs?   What I would like to know however is why a cardiologist had these drugs and was using them routinely for hay fever when there were serious side effects detected in their usage?   Drugs which by the way had to be specially imported from abroad?

Did Madeleine get her hands on these drugs, did she succumb to their effects, did her parents panic ???  Is this one myth too far for the myth busters?

Welcome back Insider. 
When you departed on Nov 24th, never to be seen again, I wondered if as an Insider,  you were working with the Porto team of the PJ?   

...... cos PT re-opened the case that day, did they not?.


Insider, have you any news for us? 

[pegasus]

IIRC medicines were in a clasp bag in the south bedroom either in the wardrobe or in the chest of drawers.

[drummer]

Neither of G McCann's GPs mentioned that they arranged for him to have Terfenadine in their statements but as a named patient basis oly drug, they would be required to declare that they had done.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RICHARD_SCHOFIELD.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PH-HU.htm

Both GPs said they had never prescribed any medication that could alter the parents behaviour or demeanour/that could alter the psychological state of them. In this line of questioning why would a GP have to mention prescribing a medicine for hayfever if they are being asked about medicines which could alter the parents psychological state.

[sadie]

Interestingly, Terfenadine the 'named patient basis only'drug that neither of GM's doctors arranged for him to have  was withdrawn in 1999 because "...second-generation antihistamines mizolastine and terfenadine are particularly prone to cause ventricular arrhythmias"
 
If Madeleine had  very mild CHARGE syndrome and accidentally took some of daddies withdrawn tablets thinking they were sweeties, the effects would be fatal.
 
C - Coloboma of the eye, central nervous system anomalies
H - Heart defects
A - Atresia of the choanae
R - Retardation of growth and/or development
G - Genital and/or urinary defects (Hypogonadism)
E - Ear anomalies and/or deafness
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHARGE_syndrome
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terfenadine
 
"Terfenadine-containing drugs were subsequently removed from the Canadian market in 1999,[4] and are no longer available for prescription in the UK.[5]
 
Source for [5] Terfenadine- General Practice notebook from GPnotebook.co.uk"
 
------------------------------------
 
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/terfenadine-side-effects.html
 
Side effects of Terfenadine include drowsiness
 
----------------------------------
 
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Antihistamines.htm Last Checked: 19/01/2012
 
"...second-generation antihistamines mizolastine and terfenadine are particularly prone to cause ventricular arrhythmias (predominantly ventricular tachycardia and torsades de pointes).[4] This is more likely to occur where a relatively high dose is being taken or where there is hepatic cytochrome P450 impairment, both of which raise the plasma concentration of the drug. Of the first-generation drugs, alimemazine, hydroxyzine and promethazine have been implicated as causing this complication. For this reason, terfenadine and astemizole have been WITHDRAWN."
 
Original Author: Dr Gurvinder Rull Current Version: Dr Gurvinder Rull  Peer Reviewer: Prof Cathy Jackson
Last Checked: 19/01/2012
 
--------------------------------------
 
Terfenadine is not found in Mims Prescribery which is used by medical practitioners and is classed as their bible http://www.mims.co.uk/
 
It can be given to patients but only on a Named Patient Basis/Named Patient supply and the GP has certain liabilities as detailed further down.
 
http://www.gpnotebook.com/simplepage.cfm?ID=-1603600346
 
"Notes:
 
terfenadine is only available in the UK on a named-patient basis through specialist importers. There are no longer any licensed preparations containing terfenadine available in the UK (November 2005)"
 
-------------------------------------
 
"Procedures for Named Patient Supply
There are a number of regulatory processes that need to be adhered to:
• An unlicensed medicine can only be requested by a doctor, (SI 2005
No. 765 allows supplementary prescribers to prescribe unlicensed
medicines) on a named patient basis. The pharmacist must ensure
the prescribing clinician is aware that the medicine is unlicensed.
Legally, if there is another licensed preparation available, then this
should be offered and used."
 
Source: http://www.oncologynews.biz/pdf/oct_nov/ON_ON06_08.pdf (used for definition)
 
“Named patient basis prescribing is a scheme which allows a doctor to prescribe an unlicensed drug to a particular `named patient'. It is only an option for drugs whose manufacturer is prepared to release it on this basis, and has to be arranged by the doctor on an individual basis. Some companies are unwilling to release unapproved drugs in this way.
 
The next step is for your doctor to find out what conditions are attached to the use of the drug. The drug company may require you to have passed certain medical tests before providing the drug, in order to avoid damaging side-effects."
 
"The doctor must inform the patient that the drug has unproven benefits and that there are unknown risks attached to the use of the drug. This protects a doctor against liability. A GP can only be proved liable if he/she has not taken reasonable steps to treat you according to his/her experience and knowledge of the particular illness. This distributes the responsibility between you and your doctor when choosing an experimental therapy, but doesn't protect you against incompetence."
 
Source http://tripanswers.tripdatabase.co.uk/Answer.aspx?qid=1390
 

Note
 
Neither of G McCann's GPs mentioned that they arranged for him to have Terfenadine in their statements but as a named patient basis oly drug, they would be required to declare that they had done.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RICHARD_SCHOFIELD.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PH-HU.htm

Thank you for all your sources Serendipity, but I cant find any similar statements in any totally bonafide well respected drug/medical websites.
 

The internet is sodden with reports on the a.nti Mccann forums, but many of us feel that we cannot trust them because so many myths have come from them
 

We all know that we cant trust Wikipaedias because they can be easily altered by any Tom, Dick or Harry
 
 
 
Do you have any bona fide reports by any truly reputable agencies such as the NHS ?  Please.

[Serendipity]

Thank you for all your sources Serendipity, but I cant find any similar statements in any totally bonafide well respected drug/medical websites.
 

The internet is sodden with reports on the a.nti Mccann forums, but many of us feel that we cannot trust them because so many myths have come from them
 

We all know that we cant trust Wikipaedias because they can be easily altered by any Tom, Dick or Harry
 
 
 
Do you have any bona fide reports by any truly reputable agencies such as the NHS ?  Please.

Who do you think uses Mims?

[Serendipity]

Neither of G McCann's GPs mentioned that they arranged for him to have Terfenadine in their statements but as a named patient basis oly drug, they would be required to declare that they had done.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RICHARD_SCHOFIELD.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PH-HU.htm

Both GPs said they had never prescribed any medication that could alter the parents behaviour or demeanour/that could alter the psychological state of them. In this line of questioning why would a GP have to mention prescribing a medicine for hayfever if they are being asked about medicines which could alter the parents psychological state.

Search for Terfenadine in here, you will find that it could affect the users psychological state:

http://www.healthcentral.com/static/pp/pdf_guides/psych65.pdf

Regardless of what either of the doctors was asked, they are duty bound to report any named patient basis medications.  They didn't, so where did Gerry Mccann get them from?

[Serendipity]

Thank you for all your sources Serendipity, but I cant find any similar statements in any totally bonafide well respected drug/medical websites.
 

The internet is sodden with reports on the a.nti Mccann forums, but many of us feel that we cannot trust them because so many myths have come from them
 

We all know that we cant trust Wikipaedias because they can be easily altered by any Tom, Dick or Harry
 
 
 
Do you have any bona fide reports by any truly reputable agencies such as the NHS ?  Please.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/long-QT-syndrome/Documents/Acquired-LQT-Brochure06.pdf