G McCann - The antihistamine drug Terfenadine and its side effects.

[Benice]

Until someone can come up with a credible reason why the McCanns did NOT dispose of any potentially incriminating drugs before the police arrived - then it's a non-starter IMO. 

If they had been sedating Madeleine with them and had caused her death  - then getting rid of them would be the first thing they would do.    And what could have been more simple?

The fact that they didn't do that is the strongest 'evidence' IMO that they did not sedate their children.

[gilet]

Terfenadine wasn't banned for fun, it had serious side effects including heart attacks.  The drug also had the potential to cause drowsiness in some patients.

A very good point. So we are expected to believe that Gerry McCann, an expert cardiologist would permit terfenadine to be administered as a sedative to his daughter when it is specifically prohibited from use by children and could cause her serious heart problems?

Mmmm.... I see a problem with that line of thinking.

And were it to have accidentally been ingested by Madeleine, then does anyone seriously (as Benice has pointed out) think that this cardiologist would have either openly admitted to having it in PDL or to leaving it around the apartments and villa for all to see?

Mmmmm... I see problems with that line of thinking too.

As for your comment that terfenadine (a specific non-sedative anti histamine) caused drowsiness, the only clinical trials I have seen which noted this showed that the report rate was exactly the same as with the placebo, ie one person reported that result when taking the placebo and one reported it when taking the terfenadine. There are a number of reports of other non trial material which showed that patients self-reported drowsiness to clinicians. Do you know of any clinical trials which refer to this drowsiness, please? I would be keen to see them to see what the findings were.

[gilet]

Has anybody said the children were sedated on a regular basis?

Would either a cardiologist or an anaesthetist even think of using an adult-only drug with such dangerous potential heart complications on a child even on a single occasion? Somehow I think the very idea is a perfect example of desperate straw-clutching. And another example of trying to lay blame for actions on the parents of Madeleine without any evidence and without the action even being remotely credible.

[Jean-Pierre]

It's not however the drug of choice for someone who wishes to sedate their children on a regular basis I would venture.

In fact, given the reason for its original introduction "In the United States, Seldane was brought to market in 1985 as the first nonsedating antihistamine for the treatment of allergic rhinitis." it would seem to particularly inappropriate as a sedative. 

Given that Madeleines parents were both qualified doctors, I am sure they could have come up with an alternative form of sedation had they been so minded.  It follows that this discussion about Terfenadine is not really leading anywhere. 

[John]

Would either a cardiologist or an anaesthetist even think of using an adult-only drug with such dangerous potential heart complications on a child even on a single occasion? Somehow I think the very idea is a perfect example of desperate straw-clutching. And another example of trying to lay blame for actions on the parents of Madeleine without any evidence and without the action even being remotely credible.

Nobody is laying any blame gilet, that is merely your own interpretation.  Members are entitled to examine the evidence and come to their own conclusions about the use of a drug which has been withdrawn from general use by just about every clinical authority in the world.

[Mr Gray]

I have doubts that Gerry had this drug with him. if you look at Portuguese wikipaedia and the treatment of hay fever this is what you get...

A medicação mais vezes utilizada nos casos leves a moderados são os anti-histamínicos orais que bloqueiam o receptor H1 da histamina, um dos principais mediadores responsável pelos sintomas. Alguns destes medicamentos são a terfenadina, astemizole, loratadina e fexofenadina.

So a drug that has been withdrawn throughout the world and is rarely used listed as the first drug to treat hayfever....then it appears in Gerry's Portuguese statement...what's the explanation

[stephen25000]

I have doubts that Gerry had this drug with him. if you look at Portuguese wikipaedia and the treatment of hay fever this is what you get...

A medicação mais vezes utilizada nos casos leves a moderados são os anti-histamínicos orais que bloqueiam o receptor H1 da histamina, um dos principais mediadores responsável pelos sintomas. Alguns destes medicamentos são a terfenadina, astemizole, loratadina e fexofenadina.

So a drug that has been withdrawn throughout the world and is rarely used listed as the first drug to treat hayfever....then it appears in Gerry's Portuguese statement...what's the explanation

There are several explanations as to that.

It is also known that Doctors are given samples of drugs to 'test'.

When was this drug withdrawn ?

[Mr Gray]

There are several explanations as to that.

It is also known that Doctors are given samples of drugs to 'test'.

When was this drug withdrawn ?

perhaps you can give me one explanation as to why it appears as number one on the Portuguese list

doctors get new drugs to test not old ones

[stephen25000]

perhaps you can give me one explanation as to why it appears as number one on the Portuguese list

doctors get new drugs to test not old ones

How 'old' is this drug ?

and when was it withdrawn ?

[Mr Gray]

How 'old' is this drug ?

and when was it withdrawn ?

removed from american market in 1997

[stephen25000]

removed from american market in 1997

and the UK ?

[Mr Gray]

and the UK ?

I don't think its even available in the uk....a new form..fexofenadine is and is available on a normal prescription from a doctor...there is absolutely no reason to take terfenadine when fexofenadine is available without the side effects...now why is terfenadine the num 1 on portuguese wiki...something really doesn't add up

[stephen25000]

I don't think its even available in the uk....a new form..fexofenadine is and is available on a normal prescription from a doctor...there is absolutely no reason to take terfenadine when fexofenadine is available without the side effects...now why is terfenadine the num 1 on portuguese wiki...something really doesn't add up

I presume that would depend on the drug regulations in Portugal.

http://www.wddty.com/terfenadine.html

Apparently banned in the UK in 2007.

[Mr Gray]

Three questions:

1.  In Gerry's statement all references to medication are in bold

Why?

2.  In Kate's statement references to drugs are not in bold

Why?

3 In Kate's statement there is reference to a medication taken by Gerry, omeprozle, a completely different drug, but no reference to terfenadine

Could there have been a confusion somewhere?

Before they left she took some precautions: put the medicine inside a bag with a clasp in her room inside the wardrobe or the dresser. These were Calpol (paracetamol) and Nurofen (Ibuprofen), for fevers and pains, both for adults and children (liquid form for children). In this bag there was also a small pair of scissors. In the kitchen were cutting elements used to prepare the meals and which were not put out of sight. During their trips it was normal for them to take these medicines. During these holidays she never gave any medicine to her children, nor did Gerry. She now says that Gerry took medicine for acidity called Losec (omeprozole) which they also possessed.


*My emphasis

(Kate McCann)

Do you have a link to kate's statement...did kates say neurofen or ibuprofen

[ferryman]

Do you have a link to kate's statement...did kates say neurofen or ibuprofen

Kate's pre-arguido statement

I think it's the 13th paragraph up from the bottom:

http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm