Author Topic: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?  (Read 103013 times)

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Offline John

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #135 on: May 09, 2014, 08:04:17 PM »
Sorry, I had no intention of taking the topic off thread by raising the Cipriano case (neither do I believe that I have done). As you know, I was in favour of a new sub-forum to discuss her case on its own merits (or lack thereof).
 
However, I stand by the fact that knowledge of what happened in that case could have added to the McCanns suspicions /anguish of what was actually going on in their own case, including how to protect themselves as well as the twins. For that reason, I don't see the objection to my comment.

Aggressive tactics (whether physical or not) and incompetence can lead to miscarriages of justice ... wouldn't you agree?

Incompetence certainly can.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #136 on: May 09, 2014, 08:08:27 PM »
Here you are WRONG.  Innocent people don't flee their responsibilities.

It is standard police practice in every country to challenge suspects by putting certain propositions to them. It's called calling their bluff!

The McCanns fled...so what does that make them in your opinion

Offline Air Con

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #137 on: May 09, 2014, 10:49:41 PM »
His personal opinion is irrelevant but the point still stands.

Offline Carana

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #138 on: May 10, 2014, 07:16:32 AM »
Here you are WRONG.  Innocent people don't flee their responsibilities.

It is standard police practice in every country to challenge suspects by putting certain propositions to them. It's called calling their bluff!

They actually extended their stay to take part in the interviews, and left with the permission of the authorities.

Offline John

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #139 on: May 11, 2014, 03:45:17 AM »
They actually extended their stay to take part in the interviews, and left with the permission of the authorities.

So you are calling Kate a liar when she wrote in her book that Gerry was so panicked that he considered putting them all in the car and fleeing to Spain? 
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #140 on: May 11, 2014, 03:57:33 AM »
So you are calling Kate a liar when she wrote in her book that Gerry was so panicked that he considered putting them all in the car and fleeing to Spain?

Slowly, the noose is being tightened.

The McCanns are being judged on their own words.

The McCanns who would never dream of leaving PDL without Madeleine, now have a hard time returning, even though she may be about to be dug up at any stroke of the clock.

Just like when Kate went jetting off for her public meeting with the Pope, when her daughter may have been recovered at any second, scared, abused, and crying for her mum.

Just like when they went to dinner, yet again,leaving their kids alone to cry.


Offline Luz

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #141 on: May 13, 2014, 09:55:17 AM »
I decline to respond to any insults posted on this, only now, found thread.


Criminal Law (Private Law) v.s. Civil Law (Common Law)

The First Trial over the book "Truth about the lie" was about defamation, damage of personality rights (image, good, name, honour,...) versus freedom of expression - 2 of the most important constitutional rights in Portuguese Law, and it fell within the parameters of Criminal Law. After all the levels of decision were followed, the Supreme Court decided towards the legitimacy of Freedom of Expression, considering the book didn't harm any private rights since, according to Portuguese Law, what it expressed was publicly available in the process case files.

The present Trial is about financial compensation for "alleged" damages caused by certain documents (book, CD, TV documentary). This is Civil Law, and it is common if you are about to present a court case for damages to ask for a cautionary arrest of the property of the individuals/organizations against which you are going to make such demand. It happens with private persons and with organizations all the time (so to speak).

What some people in here don't seem to grab is that this is not a "LIBEL" case - that has already been tried and the McCann lost - book, TV documentary & CD were not libelous. - This is about compensation pure and simple.
If you request to be compensated for a damage suffered you have to present unequivocal proof that such damages occurred. From the first sessions in Court I find it difficult to say the McCann have a case.

This is not a case where McCann being suspects or not have any relevance; this is not a case where previous trial courts where Amaral was present has relevance,...this is about the McCann demanding Amaral to pay them for "sufferings" they have to prove.

I know some people would prefer to wrap it all in the same package but that is not how the law works.

To sustain what is said I add the last lines of the Appeals Court decision in what concerns the "Defamation trial against Amaral & Co in order to suspend TV documentary, CDs & book sales"

«(...) In a concise manner:

The book at stake in this process – "Maddie – the Truth of the Lie" – which was written by the defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, has the main motivation of defending his personal and professional honour, as the author points out right away in the preface and throughout his text.

The contents of the book does not offend any of the applicants' fundamental rights.

The exercise of its writing and publication is included in the constitutional rights that are secured to everyone by the European Convention on Human Rights and by the Portuguese Republic’s Constitution, namely in its articles 37º and 38º.

As we arrive at this point, we conclude that the decision that was made by the Court a quo must be revoked, and the analysis of the other issues that are placed under appeal are not justified, as they are considered prejudiced.

The appeal by defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral is sustained.

The other appeals are not taken into consideration, as it is understood that their appreciation is prejudiced – article 660º, no 2, of the Civil Process Code.

III – Decision

In harmony with what is written above, under the terms of the cited dispositions, the Judges at this Appeals Court declare the validity of the appeal filed by defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, and the sentence of the Court a quo is revoked, its disposition replaced by the following:

The injunction is deemed not valid because it was not proved.

Furthermore we deliberate that we do not acknowledge the rest of the appeals.

Costs to be paid by the appellants*.

Lisbon and Appeals Court, 14.10.2010

The Appellate Court Judges,

Francisco Bruto da Costa
Catarina Arelo Manso
António Valente»
[translated in http://www.mccannfiles.com/id344.html]

NOTE: as a further clarification, the decision was taken by a Civil Court to liberate the book & other documents that had been suspended by the First Court decision (I know it's confusing, but defamation is criminal & its consequences are civil).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 10:00:43 AM by Luz »

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #142 on: May 13, 2014, 07:06:59 PM »
So you are calling Kate a liar when she wrote in her book that Gerry was so panicked that he considered putting them all in the car and fleeing to Spain?
Do you agree that 'thinking' and 'doing' are two different things?  Did they flee their responsibilities?  If so, in your opinion, this means they are guilty of something as, according to you "innocent people don't flee their responsibilities".  So, what are they guilty of, in your opinion?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #143 on: May 13, 2014, 07:18:21 PM »
I decline to respond to any insults posted on this, only now, found thread.


To sustain what is said I add the last lines of the Appeals Court decision in what concerns the "Defamation trial against Amaral & Co in order to suspend TV documentary, CDs & book sales"

«(...) In a concise manner:

The book at stake in this process – "Maddie – the Truth of the Lie" – which was written by the defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, has the main motivation of defending his personal and professional honour, as the author points out right away in the preface and throughout his text.

The contents of the book does not offend any of the applicants' fundamental rights.

The exercise of its writing and publication is included in the constitutional rights that are secured to everyone by the European Convention on Human Rights and by the Portuguese Republic’s Constitution, namely in its articles 37º and 38º.

As we arrive at this point, we conclude that the decision that was made by the Court a quo must be revoked, and the analysis of the other issues that are placed under appeal are not justified, as they are considered prejudiced.

The appeal by defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral is sustained.

The other appeals are not taken into consideration, as it is understood that their appreciation is prejudiced – article 660º, no 2, of the Civil Process Code.

III – Decision

In harmony with what is written above, under the terms of the cited dispositions, the Judges at this Appeals Court declare the validity of the appeal filed by defendant Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, and the sentence of the Court a quo is revoked, its disposition replaced by the following:

The injunction is deemed not valid because it was not proved.

Furthermore we deliberate that we do not acknowledge the rest of the appeals.

Costs to be paid by the appellants*.

Lisbon and Appeals Court, 14.10.2010

The Appellate Court Judges,

Francisco Bruto da Costa
Catarina Arelo Manso
António Valente»
[translated in http://www.mccannfiles.com/id344.html]

NOTE: as a further clarification, the decision was taken by a Civil Court to liberate the book & other documents that had been suspended by the First Court decision (I know it's confusing, but defamation is criminal & its consequences are civil).

the trial is a trial for defamation...a libel trial...everyone seems to know that except you...but as you claim that amaral has been cleared of his criminal charge...you have shown a profound lack of knowledge re legal proceedings

Offline Victoria

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #144 on: May 13, 2014, 07:23:04 PM »
the trial is a trial for defamation...a libel trial...everyone seems to know that except you...but as you claim that amaral has been cleared of his criminal charge...you have shown a profound lack of knowledge re legal proceedings

Indeed.

I can't work out whether it's wishful thinking, ignorance or just plain dishonesty.

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #145 on: May 14, 2014, 12:02:11 AM »
The Portugese legal system is famous for its complexity.

Unless you've studied it, you don't have a clue what the legal proceedings are/will be.

Even the Portugese courts themselves struggle with interpretation.

What is certain is that the attempt to censor Amaral's book, failed, and the current attempt to prove libel has been inexplicably suspended.

Blind Freddy can see why.  ?>)()<

Offline Carana

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #146 on: May 14, 2014, 12:57:25 PM »
On appeal?

Are you sure about that?

Not entirely sure... but could anyone with a better grasp of Portuguese translate this sentence in the introductory part of the appeal process that seems to be the bottom line of the initial ruling and thus the start of a reconsideration of it?

Vindo, realizada que foi a audiência final, a ser proferida sentença que julgou a ação improcedente, por não provada, absolvendo os RR. do pedido.

Offline Carana

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #147 on: May 14, 2014, 01:02:30 PM »
The Portugese legal system is famous for its complexity.

Unless you've studied it, you don't have a clue what the legal proceedings are/will be.

Even the Portugese courts themselves struggle with interpretation.

What is certain is that the attempt to censor Amaral's book, failed, and the current attempt to prove libel has been inexplicably suspended.

Blind Freddy can see why.  ?>)()<

Didn't the defence request documents related to the WOC towards the end of the trial? What is the purpose of this and why didn't he (or his lawyer) request them earlier if there was an issue?

Offline John

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #148 on: May 14, 2014, 01:28:11 PM »
As a simple example of how things can be misinterpreted when looking at Portuguese courts let look at the designation 'appellant'.

In the UK we are familiar with this term as meaning someone who brings an appeal.

In Portugal however, the party who must respond to an appeal by the losing party is called 'appellant' in the appeals court. Thus the McCanns in responding to the appeal by Gonçalo Amaral & Others were designated appellants.

Confused or what?  8-)(--)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 01:31:06 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?
« Reply #149 on: May 14, 2014, 01:43:17 PM »
As a simple example of how things can be misinterpreted when looking at Portuguese courts let look at the designation 'appellant'.

In the UK we are familiar with this term as meaning someone who brings an appeal.

In Portugal however, the party who must respond to an appeal by the losing party is called 'appellant' in the appeals court. Thus the McCanns in responding to the appeal by Gonçalo Amaral & Others were designated appellants.

Confused or what?  8-)(--)

Erm, I'm not too sure about that, John.

How does the overturning of the temporary injunction of a book, pending a defamation trial, equate to an appeal process of the main trial which hadn't yet taken place?

ETA: And the first instance case is still in limbo.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 01:50:15 PM by Carana »