Scotland Yard about to commence digs in and around Praia da Luz.

[Mr Gray]

Hi John,
I'm fine, thank you, I stopped posting out of boredom to see posts (some being mine) deleted whereas insulting ones remained. They're still found acceptable, your forum is notorious for leaving posters argue ad hominem !
I'm now answering to a pm of yours, therefore if you delete it, I'll laugh.
You asked "what I thought of the latest news from PDL".
I understand fairly well that SY wants to dig a certain place (road works) in 25 de Abril (the Alouette III of the Air Force passed three times over the part near the church).
I understand also why the MP accepted that request. They likely never considered that Smithman was heading towards the church square and when (if) they did, the road words were finished.
It shows clearly that they believe Madeleine's body could be buried there, not buried in a hole that would have been dug with a shovel, but deposited in a cavity and covered with stones.They will look for cavities, that's what the geo-radar is for.
This reveals that they believe that Smithman was carrying a corpse. I always believed that, reading Martin Smith's description of the carrier's clumsiness.
Knowing the Portuguese's worship for kids, I think those building works were carefully examined more thrice than once. I also think that Smithman couldn't afford taking any risk.
Therefore I bet that SY will find nothing.
But, following the hypothetico-deductive method, they should find out.

Strangley I agree with Anne...this is about ruling out a suspect and scenario...but who knows.. however I'm sure smithman wasn't gerry

[Pzi]

Note on the helicopter: The Alouette III (the military helicopter seen) is at most being used to show the area from the air to the SY and PJ inspectors/police. If they wanted current photos of the area they would request the Portuguese Air Force to use the C-295 aircraft, which can be equipped with dedicated equipment way better for aerial photography than the Alouette III could ever be equipped with.

Also note that the Portuguese Air Force's P-3C (the newer version) and the C-295 (the MPA version) can be equipped not only with cameras for photo reconnaissance but also with other sensors, such as ground penetrating radars, to analyze the ground and conduct geophysical surveys, which could be enough to sense disturbances underground.

Either the Alouette III was being used to show the area to the detectives or was just a "para o inglês ver" for the media/press.

Cheers,

[Cariad]

Note on the helicopter: The Alouette III (the military helicopter seen) is at most being used to show the area from the air to the SY and PJ inspectors/police. If they wanted current photos of the area they would request the Portuguese Air Force to use the C-295 aircraft, which can be equipped with dedicated equipment way better for aerial photography than the Alouette III could ever be equipped with.

Also note that the Portuguese Air Force's P-3C (the newer version) and the C-295 (the MPA version) can be equipped not only with cameras for photo reconnaissance but also with other sensors, such as ground penetrating radars, to analyze to ground and conduct geo surveys, which could be enough to sense disturbances underground.

Either the Alouette III was being used to show the area to the detectives or was just a "para o inglês ver" for the media/press.

Cheers,

You sound like you know what you're on about. I assume that it was an expensive fly over and that it would've taken so time to organise, what do you reckon?

[pegasus]

http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/05/11/revelations-in-search-for-maddie-mccann/
"... key areas to be searched ... the tapas bar  ..."
Probably a typographical error?

[Pzi]

You sound like you know what you're on about. I assume that it was an expensive fly over and that it would've taken so time to organise, what do you reckon?

I don't have any inside information regarding this particular flight. Nevertheless, the Alouette III isn't that expensive to operate and the Portuguese Air Force cooperates closely with other government agencies (i.e. Civilian Protection - Protecção Civil). If you were the PJ and needed quick air support your best option would be to try to request an helicopter from EMA (state owned company which had a contract with the Ministry of the Internal Administration) or ask the Air Force. The PJ and the Air Force already often work together in anti-narcotic operations.

Since the Alouette III is mostly used for instruction/training, apart from a small coastal SAR detachment in Ovar (north of the country), it wouldn't be that difficult to request one just to fly some people over Praia da Luz. For the Air Force it could even still count as simple navigation training or just a flight to maintain their pilot's certification on the type.

As such, I believe that at this time of year (with the wildfire season a little way off and no large joint military exercises taking place) just one day or two days would be enough to organize this flight.

Cheers,

[pegasus]

@Pzi do you know who provided the helicopter (or plane?) for the UK police NPIA expert to overfly and examine the terrain in July 2007 please?

ETA: Sorry answering own question here but just found
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id293.html
He used a Civil Defence helicopter

[Cariad]

I don't have any inside information regarding this particular flight. Nevertheless, the Alouette III isn't that expensive to operate and the Portuguese Air Force cooperates closely with other government agencies (i.e. Civilian Protection - Protecção Civil). If you were the PJ and needed quick air support your best option would be to try to request an helicopter from EMA (state owned company which had a contract with the Ministry of the Internal Administration) or ask the Air Force. The PJ and the Air Force already often work together in anti-narcotic operations.

Since the Alouette III is mostly used for instruction/training, apart from a small coastal SAR detachment in Ovar (north of the country), it wouldn't be that difficult to request one just to fly some people over Praia da Luz. For the Air Force it could even still count as simple navigation training or just a flight to maintain their pilot's certification on the type.

As such, I believe that at this time of year (with the wildfire season a little way off and no large joint military exercises taking place) just one day or two days would be enough to organize this flight.

Cheers,

Thank you for that. So not quite as difficult or expensive as I imagined then...

[icabodcrane]

http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/05/11/revelations-in-search-for-maddie-mccann/
"... key areas to be searched ... the tapas bar  ..."
Probably a typographical error?

It must be an error, surely   ? 

How could anything have been concealed in the tapas bar  ?

If it's not  an error,  however,  then it suggests the current searches have nothing to do with  'abduction'  and evertything to do with the McCanns' holiday group

[pegasus]

It must be an error, surely   ? 

How could anything have been concealed in the tapas bar  ?

If it's not  an error,  however,  then it suggests the current searches have nothing to do with  'abduction'  and evertything to do with the McCanns' holiday group

Yes error IMO, maybe they meant to write "wasteland near the tapas bar" or something like that, and mistyped it?

BTW I was looking at the scrub areas selected, partly by aerial survey from a helicopter, in July 2007, to be searched July 31 2007 onwards. I noticed the survey did not select the wasteland west of the apartment, and instead selected several scrubland areas roughly northeast of the apartment. I wonder if this directional bias in the July 2007 survey by the NPIA was due to conditioning by the sighting which was at that time given great priority of a carrier walking east. Now that bias is gone, and the area just to the west will be searched, which is BTW closer than the 2007 scrubland searches by Eddie. 

[Brietta]

It must be an error, surely   ? 

How could anything have been concealed in the tapas bar  ?

If it's not  an error,  however,  then it suggests the current searches have nothing to do with  'abduction'  and evertything to do with the McCanns' holiday group

It is an obvious error and is an illustration of exactly how such genuine errors get woven into the mythology of everything to do with Madeleine McCann's case.

[Silkywhiskers]

It is an obvious error and is an illustration of exactly how such genuine errors get woven into the mythology of everything to do with Madeleine McCann's case.

And you know this....how?

[Air Con]

the problem with the british public is that most of them don't come from britain

And most of them have no grasp of the English language.

[pegasus]

If someone wants to hide something why on earth would they walk past (and I mean walk past continuously for over 200 paces BTW) a fairly non-risky place that's shielded from public view and unlit and instead continue walking onwards down roads with potentially people on to look for a more risky place?

[pegasus]

What I mean is, if you look at the route some propose for smithman's hypothesised walk from apartment to sighting, it passed continuously along about 200 metres of perimeter corrugated panel fencing of an unused, concealed from public view, unlit area. This is why I think AR's team has been doing very good on-the-ground research to select this as one of the upcoming ground survey areas. Even if smithman turns out to be irrelevant, the characteristics of proximity, shielding, and absence of lighting, still make it a sensible selection JIMO.

[Brietta]

What I mean is, if you look at the route some propose for smithman's hypothesised walk from apartment to sighting, it passed continuously along about 200 metres of perimeter corrugated panel fencing of an unused, concealed from public view, unlit area. This is why I think AR's team has been doing very good on-the-ground research to select this as one of the upcoming ground survey areas. Even if smithman turns out to be irrelevant, the characteristics of proximity, shielding, and absence of lighting, still make it a sensible selection JIMO.

Absolutely the most logical place to look.  Waste ground, which had access.  Close proximity to the crime scene.

Dr Amaral maintains that his men thoroughly checked and searched it and I think that would be true.
The GNR did a good job in many regards and I am certain they would have deployed their dogs here.