Scotland Yard about to commence digs in and around Praia da Luz.

[Luz]

Might be a good idea to check out the hypotheses.

I agree.
There are several people more informed than me that believe that it would be a way to put a stop to any further speculation. However, I also understand Murat's position - it mustn't be easy to accept further incursions in your house after what you've suffered.

Legally there's no way to force a search without founded suspicion. Birch blew it when he performed a crime with his searches - it made whatever he found inadmissible for an inquiry judge to use it.

[Brietta]

I agree.
There are several people more informed than me that believe that it would be a way to put a stop to any further speculation. However, I also understand Murat's position - it mustn't be easy to accept further incursions in your house after what you've suffered.

Legally there's no way to force a search without founded suspicion. Birch blew it when he performed a crime with his searches - it made whatever he found inadmissible for an inquiry judge to use it.

As use of section 56 & 57 of the penal code in the complaint against Mr Birch by Mr Murat and the Lagos police illustrate.
I have asked the question before ... "why now?"

However even if the evidence that might be gained from a dig in Mrs Murat's garden may be inadmissable at the moment, surely the exploration of a site which has been identified as a possible grave of a missing child should take priority over legal nicities?

I am sure such an excavation could be done with minimum disruption to the occupants of the villa and the people of Priai da Luz.
Mr Birch managed to carry out his searches discretely enough, not even Mrs Murat's dogs were disturbed by him.

[Luz]

As use of section 56 & 57 of the penal code in the complaint against Mr Birch by Mr Murat and the Lagos police illustrate.
I have asked the question before ... "why now?"

However even if the evidence that might be gained from a dig in Mrs Murat's garden may be inadmissable at the moment, surely the exploration of a site which has been identified as a possible grave of a missing child should take priority over legal nicities?

I am sure such an excavation could be done with minimum disruption to the occupants of the villa and the people of Priai da Luz.
Mr Birch managed to carry out his searches discretely enough, not even Mrs Murat's dogs were disturbed by him.

I don't defend it, but the law is clear that evidence obtained by illicit means cannot be considered in criminal investigations. This is not specific to Portuguese Law, the exact same happens all over the world.

I expect, nevertheless, that there will be means to go around this very stupid incident.

[Mr Moderator]

No correction needed Luz, Angelo is perfectly correct in what he stated.

It was searched but not dug up.  The PJ only got ground penetrating radar four years ago.

PJ police have sanctioned the Met’s request for searches of various sites in Praia da Luz, but has not yet decided “whether the means to be used will be exclusively English”. Scotland Yard wants to use geo-radar and sniffer dogs, as well as British forensic teams, writes Sol website. But the decision is in the hands of the PJ, which also has radar, bought four years ago, able to capture images in the subsoil.

www.portugalresident.com/madeleine-birthday-brings-more-news

[Luz]

In any case, there is no reliable evidence there will be diggings performed anywhere. So far, all there is are attempts to identify possible sites where potential information may be obtained, by excavations if needed.

I may sound very sceptic, but I suspect no digging will actually be performed, although the PT authorities have given  approval for such.

For me all this is just a PR operation, nothing else.

Why?

Because NSY is only going over what the initial investigation has already done. Apart from speculation on the Media, so far, nothing new has been found, IMO of course.

[Luz]

No correction needed Luz, Angelo is perfectly correct in what he stated.


PJ police have sanctioned the Met’s request for searches of various sites in Praia da Luz, but has not yet decided “whether the means to be used will be exclusively English”. Scotland Yard wants to use geo-radar and sniffer dogs, as well as British forensic teams, writes Sol website. But the decision is in the hands of the PJ, which also has radar, bought four years ago, able to capture images in the subsoil.

www.portugalresident.com/madeleine-birthday-brings-more-news

In that case I stand corrected.
But I cannot overlook the minor incorrections dear Luckman's journal has published: PJ has sanctioned nothing, the Portimão Public Ministry-PM did. And the decision for Met to use radar & dogs also rests on the PM & not on PJ.

[Mr Moderator]

In that case I stand corrected.
But I cannot overlook the minor incorrections dear Luckman's journal has published: PJ has sanctioned nothing, the Portimão Public Ministry-PM did. And the decision for Met to use radar & dogs also rests on the PM & not on PJ.

I understand your point but is it not essential that the PJ also agree to cooperate?

[Brietta]

In any case, there is no reliable evidence there will be diggings performed anywhere. So far, all there is are attempts to identify possible sites where potential information may be obtained, by excavations if needed.

I may sound very sceptic, but I suspect no digging will actually be performed, although the PT authorities have given  approval for such.

For me all this is just a PR operation, nothing else.

Why?

Because NSY is only going over what the initial investigation has already done. Apart from speculation on the Media, so far, nothing new has been found, IMO of course.

I think many cold cases have been progressed when the new investigation is allowed to investigate evidence without let or hindrance. 
This can be seen from the arrest of a man by the new investigators in the case of Claudia Lawrence. 

No body has been found but an arrest has been made because a new investigation looked at the evidence available with a fresh eye.

They said the new forensic examination of her house uncovered the fingerprints of people who have not yet come forward.

They also found the DNA profile of an unknown man on a cigarette butt in her Vauxhall Corsa.

Ms Lawrence's father Peter has led a five-year campaign to find out what happened to his daughter.

http://news.sky.com/story/1260580/claudia-lawrence-disappearance-man-arrested

[Alfred R Jones]

It was searched but not dug up.  The PJ only got ground penetrating radar four years ago.

Who needs ground penetrating radar when dogs like Eddie can allegedly sniff out a corpse buried under concrete?

[Anna]

Who needs ground penetrating radar when dogs like Eddie can allegedly sniff out a corpse buried under concrete?

If they can smell through concrete and roads, would they not smell the underground pipes carrying Waste disposal from restaurants, butchers etc, etc. I wonder where these channels/pipes ran too, from the ocean club?? Just a thought!

[pegasus]

IIRC "Verdade da Mentira" says (and I don't know whether its true) one day one person phones PJ requesting tests, later same day someoneelse phones cancelling request.

(Edited 24 May 2014)
Apologies not sure whether allegation is in book but is actually in an interview Amsterdam 09 May 2009
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id173.html

[John]

I have imported the following comments from the latest news thread because they are very relevant to the proposed digs. (excuse the pun)


Madeleine birthday brings more news

...Meanwhile, TV commentator and critic Eduardo Cintra Torres has criticised the Madeleine razzmatazz that seems to have been stirred up by Scotland Yard in the past week. Talking on CMTV, Torres claims that Madeleine cop DCI Andy Redwood needs a psychological evaluation. “I look at him, and I just think ‘this man wants to appear on TV’,” Torres told CMTV news anchor João Ferreira. “With so many children disappearing in England, did he choose the Madeleine case because he would appear on television? “Why are the Portuguese police being subservient to this mockery?” He added. “We need to ask, what exactly is going on? This is all just ridiculous. Just a way of showing off.” Torres’ contentions have been echoed elsewhere with critics suggesting the British police are trying to justify the millions spent so far by Operation Grange in the search for Madeleine’s alleged abductor. Others have suggested it is an election ploy of the British government in the run-up to the European elections. Whatever the motivation, Torres claims it is “shameful for the Portuguese state to allow the mediatisation of an investigation that belongs to the Portuguese and not to the English. “If we tried to do the same in England, would they allow it?” He asked. “Of course not!” By NATASHA DONN news@algarveresident.com

www.portugalresident.com/madeleine-birthday-brings-more-news

The Portuguese are becoming very critical of Scotland Yard, a view expressed also by Luz.  I wonder is there a danger here of this investigation ending in farce?

[sadie]

And just like that, the entire PJ investigation has been written off as pretense.

Regardless of the fact that the original investigation has been checked and rechecked by Operation Grange who, after four long years, have ended up digging 100m front 5a's front door....EXACTLY where the PJ left off.

Have they started digging yet?

I was under the impression that they were looking at digging

1)   260 metres away on the waste land in front of the Staff Quarters

2)  also at the new car park behind the church which is about 400 metres away

3)  and at the large beach which is about 470 metres to its closest bit

4)  or if we only consider a quiet bit of beach that is not overlooked too badly, about 780 metres


But it is my uderstanding that they have to ground search first, then and only if something suspicious is found, start digging.


I am unable to identify any suitable digging place 100 metres away from 5A front door.  Where would that be , my dear?

[pegasus]

... digging 100m from 5a's front door ...

I checked your measurement and yes very good, the closest point which  is reported be included in the upcoming ground surveys (initially radar and dog) is indeed very close to exactly 100 metres away.

[Silkywhiskers]

I checked your measurement and yes very good, the closest point which  is reported be included in the upcoming ground surveys (initially radar and cadaver dogs) is indeed very close to exactly 100 metres away.

And STILL it doesn't register with Team McCann, just how significant the dig is.....

Bizarre.

We've gone from having an abduction by Posh Spice/Hewlett/Euclides whoever, to a dig right outside the apartment.

That is a MASSIVE development.