Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?

[Anna]

What are these white things on the floor:  cartridges? Sugar lumps?

Too big for sugar cubes, I think. Too square for cases. Broken china?

[Passer-by]

They all look the same, and I thought there was no broken China - the bowls are all on the table and the dresser isn't that disturbed.

[Passer-by]

Sheila putting her heavily blood stained clothing in a bucket,(hidden in full view) before washing/showering and changing, was something that I considered too.
Anne binned the contents of that bucket with heavily blood stained clothing. We will never know what was really in that bucket.

Not one for the gents really . . .

. . .  but she needn't even have showered.

Clothes wouldn't just be put in a bucket of water:  she would have put her hands in the water and rubbed the clothes fabric-to-fabric to lessen the stains then washed her hands with soap at the sink.  Unbelievable no-one checked the clothing out:  the outright sexism/prudishness of the age runs through the whole (male) police handling of this event, from an above-average height woman who has born twins being pathetic and weedy to kill an already injured man, to her pretty little nail-varnished fingers being to weak to pull a trigger - look:  she didn't even chip her nail polish! To pulling her nightie down to cover her nether regions thus changing the blood splatter evidence, to primly looking the other way when there's a bucket of bloodstained clothing at a murder scene.

[Passer-by]

PS but there was a shower in the downstairs loo - hence Bamber called it a bathroom - and I know I've read (waaargh need Holly to find it?!) that when the police arrived at the house the light was in in the rooms above the kitchen, which were the boys' bedroom - and the bathroom.

[Anna]

PS but there was a shower in the downstairs loo - hence Bamber called it a bathroom - and I know I've read (waaargh need Holly to find it?!) that when the police arrived at the house the light was in in the rooms above the kitchen, which were the boys' bedroom - and the bathroom.

The bathroom light was on? Could have been for the twins, though. I left my bathroom light on when my children were  small.
 Yep there was a shower just off the boot room, it was in Carols book and this post.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6488.msg258476#msg258476

[Passer-by]

I understood there were lights on all over the place, but the curtains were shut in the boys' bedroom and the bathroom. 

Given the whole debate about seeing someone in the master bedroom, I thought the curtains were, as in the photos, open in there - otherwise they would just have refuted that claim by saying the curtains were drawn instead of "it was a trick of the moonlight".  In which case I'm surprised no-one thought it odd that June and Nevill were sleeping with the curtains open.

Presumably the curtains had to be open in the kitchen for the police to approach the window and look through it.

Given the light was on in the boys' bedroom, it's perhaps more likely that light and the neighbouring bathroom light were put on by the killer:  the boys wouldn't have been sleeping with the bedroom light on.  But presumably the killer wouldn't have put the light before killing the boys or that would have woken them up.  Personally I think the killer went around the house afterwards doing the extra head shots to make sure they were all dead after being surprised by how much effort was required to kill Nevill, and that might have been when the boys' light was put on.

If it is the case that the lights were on inside the house and there were curtains open in rooms where murders took place, Bamber would have been taking quite a risk if it was him who committed the murders - which also seems at odds with someone who is committing a murder they have coldly planned and they intend not to get caught.  It seems to me the person inside didn't care if anyone outside could see what was happening in the house.  Which as you know, makes me suspect it was Sheila.

[Anna]

I understood there were lights on all over the place, but the curtains were shut in the boys' bedroom and the bathroom. 

Given the whole debate about seeing someone in the master bedroom, I thought the curtains were, as in the photos, open in there - otherwise they would just have refuted that claim by saying the curtains were drawn instead of "it was a trick of the moonlight".  In which case I'm surprised no-one thought it odd that June and Nevill were sleeping with the curtains open.

Presumably the curtains had to be open in the kitchen for the police to approach the window and look through it.

Given the light was on in the boys' bedroom, it's perhaps more likely that light and the neighbouring bathroom light were put on by the killer:  the boys wouldn't have been sleeping with the bedroom light on.  But presumably the killer wouldn't have put the light before killing the boys or that would have woken them up.  Personally I think the killer went around the house afterwards doing the extra head shots to make sure they were all dead after being surprised by how much effort was required to kill Nevill, and that might have been when the boys' light was put on.

If it is the case that the lights were on inside the house and there were curtains open in rooms where murders took place, Bamber would have been taking quite a risk if it was him who committed the murders - which also seems at odds with someone who is committing a murder they have coldly planned and they intend not to get caught.  It seems to me the person inside didn't care if anyone outside could see what was happening in the house.  Which as you know, makes me suspect it was Sheila.

Good points there. Kitchen light was on and I think that they may have mistaken Neville for a female. Maybe some of the cushions etc too could have made it look like two people. I don't think Sheila was there.
I do wonder about the possible movement seen upstairs, though.

Neville's bedroom curtains probably were left open. They went to be bed when it was dark and I doubt there would be much in the way of lights outside in the country. They would also be up at the crack of dawn and kept a window open in the bedroom, so why close the curtains as they would blow about. As you say, if someone had meticulously planned the murders, they would have known about the open curtains, so were taking a mega risk. If it was on the other hand a frenzied attack by a mad man/woman, then it makes more sense.
The twins couldn't have been shot in the dark, so the murderer would have to have put the lights on, or did he use the light from the bathroom or hall?


Did Jeremy ever read the bible? would he know the appropriate Psalm?
A photograph of the Bible showed that it was open at Psalms 51–55, a section of the Bible relating to wickedness and mercy, of which the following quotations can be found:-

Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin
Save me from blood guiltiness O God
My heart is sore pained within me and the terrors of death are fallen upon me.

Examination of the blood staining on the pages of the Bible confirmed that it was this page which the book was open on.

I don't think that Jeremy actually committed the murders, but I am still unsure about Sheila.

[Passer-by]

Ooh good bible class!  I didn't know that was the passage.

So one the one hand the kitchen light was on and I think I've thrown into doubt that the shade was glass and smashed on the floor as it appears to be damaged but still on the ceiling.

But on the other it's alleged the 'glass' ceiling light was smashed leaving glass all over the floor and Sheila couldn't have done it because there was no glass on her bare feet.

I'm not even going to go up a siding about whether she would have been fully dressed, not having gone to bed, and possibly wearing shoes which they undoubtedly won't have examined.  I think the kitchen floor was clearly not covered in blood and glass so it isn't so surprising little was found on the soles of her feet.  Notwithstanding the fact she then walked around barefoot on carpets which would have wiped much of it off.

[John]

Here is a more focussed photo of the breakfast table revealing the missing crockery.

[Passer-by]

Thank you John:  what's missing, apart from a fifth setting - which doesn't look like space was necessarily left for.  When I stay at my in-laws I noticed the menfolk often eat at a different time anyhow because they are working.

[Anna]

Here is a more focussed photo of the breakfast table revealing the missing crockery.

Thanks John.
              Such a mish mash of china not matching, so maybe only two ate cereals.
sugar bowl is missing and marmalade, Milk and juice jugs would be in the fridge until morning.
So at the most two cereal bowls and sugar bowl.
Your photo shows that it is most likely china on the floor. Doesn't look like a lot though.

[Passer-by]

I'd say it shows the table set for the twins (2 bowls for cereal) and the 2 women (cereal and toast).  The only china I see might be broken on the floor looks like it might have been knocked off the right corner of the dresser near the door. I certainly wouldn't say it looks like there was much of a struggle, especially since some of it was moved by the police - I can well imagine the stools going flying as they swarmed through.

[John]

I believe there is one upturned cereal bowl in front of the Welsh dresser, the other is in pieces scattered around.

The blue item on the roof appears to be the remnants of what was the ceiling light?

[Angelo222]

I believe there is one upturned cereal bowl in front of the Welsh dresser, the other is in pieces scattered around.

The blue item on the roof appears to be the remnants of what was the ceiling light?

If as we are led to believe that Sheila and Nev fought over the kitchen table with the rifle waving about wildly and smashing the ceiling light there would be small pieces of debris all over the floor which someone in bare feet could not avoid.  Blood from Nev's wounds would have gone everywhere and spattered his assailant.

[Myster]

I believe there is one upturned cereal bowl in front of the Welsh dresser, the other is in pieces scattered around.

The blue item on the roof appears to be the remnants of what was the ceiling light?

That's Tesko territory... LOL!  What are we looking at... the blue and white coat hung on the wall to the right of the AGA?

A photo of the kitchen after clean-up showing light bulb without lampshade. If any broken pieces of glass were left attached to the threaded fastener of the light bulb socket, then it looks like they've been removed...