Author Topic: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...  (Read 39707 times)

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Silkywhiskers

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Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2014, 10:52:04 PM »
Could you substantiate that from the files please?

I can do one better.

I can provide the book, The Truth of the Lie, in which her identification of Murat is discussed.

The book has been officially sanctioned as an "accurate record" of the investigation, condensed of course.

Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.


- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2014, 10:56:10 PM »
Who has sanctioned Amaral's book officially as an accurate record? 

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2014, 10:58:21 PM »
Why did Jane Tanner never make a statement confirming her identification of Murat?

Offline Carana

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2014, 11:00:27 PM »
I can do one better.

I can provide the book, The Truth of the Lie, in which her identification of Murat is discussed.

The book has been officially sanctioned as an "accurate record" of the investigation, condensed of course.

Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.


- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral

Thanks. So a book which is part of an ongoing libel trial is superior to the files on which it is supposedly based? Jane's witness statements are in the files... so could you please provide a cite from the files?

Offline Carana

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2014, 12:54:28 AM »
Oh ok, well why don't YOU provide the link to the Case Files.

Not the Archive report, the Case Files.

You were the one who stated that Jane had positively identified Murat. I have seen no such thing in the files, but if you are certain of it, then perhaps you could find it.

Offline John

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2014, 03:28:52 AM »
Remember there were three others in the tapas group who fingered Murat and one was Jane Tanner's partner.  No doubt the implications of all this were discussed by them at great length.  I have no doubt they changed their minds as time passed.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2014, 03:36:25 AM »
Lest we forget -   


Tapas Nine 'told police that Murat was man who fled apartment with child in his arms' Daily Mail
 
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 14:26 16 November 2007
 
Two friends of the McCanns told police they saw British expatriate Robert Murat carrying a child away from the couple's apartment the night Madeleine vanished, it was claimed yesterday.
 
Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner allegedly identified Mr Murat, 33, during a face-to-face meeting between him, the McCanns and the rest of the so-called Tapas Nine in May, before he was named as an official suspect, Portuguese daily 24 horas claimed.
 
The McCanns' spokesman dismissed the report as "laughable".
 
The couple have said they do not remember ever meeting Mr Murat, who denies any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance.
 
Miss Tanner, 37, has told police she saw a man carrying a child away from the apartment, but never saw his face. Her partner Dr O'Brien, 36, has never claimed he saw a man carrying a child that night.
 
But an insider told the paper: "They were all placed in the same room and two people that left the restaurant pointed to Robert Murat.
 
"They said he was the person they saw next to the apartment where Madeleine was sleeping around the time the alarm was raised about her disappearance."
 
The tabloid added: "24 horas has learnt that the friends who accused Murat are Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien.
 
"They clearly stated, during the face-to-face meeting, they thought it was him who was carrying a child in his arms.
 
"This is the same couple said to have indicated to Portuguese public prosecutors they intend altering their statements after it was made public that they could become official suspects."
 
Quoting a separate source, 24 horas added: "We know that Robert Murat was next to the apartment, he was pointed out by two witnesses and he is a friend of the McCanns."
 
Last night Francisco Pagarete, Murat's lawyer dismissed the claims as rubbish.
 
He said: "They are lies. "My client doesn't know the McCanns and the day Madeleine disappeared, he was at home with his mum.
 
"We are going to prove this is the case." Criticising Portuguese authorities over their decision not to clear Murat immediately and making him wait until next May to see the case files against him, he added:
 
"We're unhappy that we'll only be able to see the files next May and be in a position to defend ourselves."
 
Mystery has surrounded the identity of the two McCann holiday pals alleged to want to change statements they gave police soon after Madeleine disappeared.
 
Respected Spanish newspaper El Mundo, which made the initial claims, carried quotes from an unnamed lawyer for one of the Tapas Nine this week complaining his client was terrified about speaking out because of the political support for the McCanns.

Portuguese police believe the McCanns and their friends are hiding the truth and fear they may never solve the case if they do not break an alleged pact of silence.

 
The claim Jane Tanner and her partner fingered Murat early on in the investigation - and now want to change their statements - will fuel further speculation he is being made a scapegoat.
 
Jane Tanner helped police produce an E-fit of a man she claimed to have seen runhing away from their Ocean Club holiday complex with a child in a blanket.
 
Today's claim that she identified Murat as that man comes amid reports police are preparing to make her and three other members of the Tapas Nine official suspects because of inconsistencies in their original statements.
 

Murat has always protested his innocence and police have found no DNA evidence linking him to Madeleine's disappearance despite searching the home in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz he shares with mum Jennifer and digging up their garden.
 
The McCanns have rubbished suggestions they are pressuring their friends into lying and claims any of the Tapas Nine want to change their statements.
 
They insist Madeleine was kidnapped by an intruder and possibly taken across the border into Spain by someone working to the orders of a paedophile gang.

 
Police allegedly failed to send blankets, pillows and mattresses from the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz for forensic testing.
 
A source at Portugal's National Institute of Legal Medicine said: "We were only sent a few forensic traces for DNA testing.
 
"It would have been good if they had sent us the blankets, pillows and even the mattress where the girl was sleeping.
 
"We might have found some important clues on them and not just hairs, which was what was sent to the institute.
 
"Speaking hypothetically, there could have been fibres belonging to an abductor, or even a fingerprint." Several items in the apartment are thought to have been cleaned by staff at the Ocean Club days after Maddie's disappearance.
 
The McCanns and their friends are also believed to have damaged vital evidence when they were walking round the crime scene before police arrived.
 
A police source said: "When we returned to the apartment more than 24 hours after the girl vanished, half of the evidence had already disappeared."


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id108.html

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2014, 09:47:28 AM »
Jane Tanner would not have been confidently able to say she never id'ed Murat if she knew that somewhere in the police files was a signed statement from herself saying that she had.  The end.

Offline Carana

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2014, 09:50:42 AM »
That's an example of when checking the files can be helpful. Jane Tanner wasn't even present at that face-to-face meeting.

It was Russell, Rachel and Fiona.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm#p8p1957


Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2014, 09:52:46 AM »
That's an example of when checking the files can be helpful. Jane Tanner wasn't even present at that face-to-face meeting.

It was Russell, Rachel and Fiona.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm#p8p1957
Yes, an example of Amaral "getting it wrong".

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2014, 11:37:14 AM »
I can do one better.

I can provide the book, The Truth of the Lie, in which her identification of Murat is discussed.

The book has been officially sanctioned as an "accurate record" of the investigation, condensed of course.

Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.


- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral

Can you tell us where, from Mark Harrison's report, he states that Madeleine is definitely dead and that her concealed remains lie in close proximity to PdL?

Can you also tell us where Harrison says the culprit is most likely  someone close to Madeleine, and maybe, even, her parents?

And do you think that anything was hidden from the prosecutors, who are on record as stating that there is no evidence against the McCanns of any crime?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 11:50:36 AM by ferryman »

ferryman

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Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2014, 11:43:02 AM »
(Replying to Silkywhiskers):

You were the one who stated that Jane had positively identified Murat. I have seen no such thing in the files, but if you are certain of it, then perhaps you could find it.

Jane does say in her rogatory interview that, at just the moment she was about to make her sighting, a car pulled out and blocked her view.

She also says that they met Robert Murat* en route to the vehicle from where she would, later, attempt to make her sighting ...

Edited to correct surname, Tanner for Murat with thanks to Alfred R Jones for pointing out the error ...
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 07:03:55 PM by ferryman »

Offline John

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2014, 05:06:47 PM »
BOB SMALL AND THE SPANISH POLICE
After speaking to “the people that Kate and Gerry brought in”, Miss Tanner received a telephone call from Bob Small (a senior Leicestershire Police Officer, who was assisting the PJ in the Algarve) who told her that the “Spanish Police” wanted to see her! Yes: he did say, according to Miss Tanner, “the Spanish Police”. It is likely, by that time, that covert plans had been made (on some pretext) to induce Mr Murat to walk across the top of the road, north of Apartment 5A, where Miss Tanner said she had seen the “abductor” and was thus the precise context in which she believed she could make an identification.
 
Mr Small told Miss Tanner to not to discuss anything with anyone, including her husband. She claims she followed this instruction to the letter: but is it realistic to believe she did not tell him anything: or is she lying on this point? If she is being untruthful, why?
 
Mr Murat was under suspicion but had not been made an “Arguido”. He been around the Ocean Club a lot from 4th May 2007 onwards and had interpreted the PJ’s interviews with Catriona Baker, Stacey Portz , Leanne Wagstaff and Amy Teirney (Folio 457). It is possible that between 6th May 2007 (when his name was mentioned by Lori Campbell) and 13th May 2007 the news that a local suspect had been identified had reached the ears of the “Tapas 9”. It is even conceivable that they knew the suspect was Mr Murat. Unlike her husband and others of the “Tapas 9”, Miss Tanner had never been introduced to Mr Murat.
 
THE ILL JUDGED“PICK UP”
Arrangements were made for Miss Tanner to be collected by Mr Small and his PJ colleagues in a car park near to Mr Murat’s home: this was probably around 7.30pm on Sunday 13th May 2007 while Dr Amaral waited for news in a meeting room at the Public Ministry, preparing to pounce if Miss Tanner’s identification was “successful”.
 
Miss Tanner dramatizes that she was “worried sick” that the “Spanish Police” were about to cart her off to destinations unknown and got her husband to walk with her to the rendezvous with Mr Small. If, as she claims, she did not discuss the identification operation with her husband, what precisely did she say to him? What did he think was going on? Who looked after their kids and what did they tell them? It is beyond belief that Russell O’Brien and some of the other “Tapasniks” did not know what was afoot.
 
Why the police arranged Miss Tanner’s pick up so near to their main suspect’s home was at best foolish and was asking for trouble. On their way to the car park - and just outside his home - Robert Murat (who had met Russell O' Brien on the morning of Friday 4th May 2007) stopped, got out of his green VW van and chatted, showing the couple posters he had made to “Find Madeleine” and generally rattling on about nothing in particular. This was the first time Miss Tanner had been introduced to Mr Murat, but given the events that were about to follow it is amazing she did not cry out “That’s him… that’s the ‘person’ I saw: the abductor”. But she didn’t say a single word.
 
In April 2008 she told the Leicestershire Police that she was concerned that there “was some strange conspiracy going on” (to abduct her) and that Mr Small had “scared the daylights out of her”. She continued: “But that made me even more suspicious because it was like, so I think at that point, I think I actually spoke to Stewart (Stewart Prior the lead UK Police Investigator in Luz)”. She knows she had spoken to Mr Prior and thus had no reason to believe that she was about to be abducted. Her histrionics in this regard are absurd.
 
The discussion Miss Tanner had with her husband about the identification charade are very important. He had already met Mr Murat and would be able to identify him and point him out to her. Was it pure coincidence that he accompanied Miss Tanner to the pick up by Mr Small? Was it bad planning that the pick up was just outside Mr Murat’s house? Was it misfortune that they happened to bump into Mr Murat? Or is the whole sequence far more sinister?
 
Miss Tanner was taken away by Mr Small and the PJ and she says Russell O’Brien wrote down their car registration number, presumably so he could rescue her if the Spanish Police abducted her. Miss Tanner was driven to another location and hidden in the back of an undercover surveillance vehicle (a refrigerated van) which was driven to a position near the side entrance to Apartment 5A, facing north.
 
THE IDENTIFICATION OF MR MURAT AS THE ABDUCTOR
Miss Tanner then, apparently, saw three people walk across the top of the road: but Mr Murat was the first to do so. It is not clear exactly what she told the PJ at the time but, however she would like to spin the story now, it was enough to make them believe Mr Murat was the “abductor”, notwithstanding the fact that he looked nothing like the “Egg Man” or her verbal description. The sighting was reported to Dr Amaral and the Public Ministry and plans made to arrest Mr Murat.  The following day, 14 May 2007, Robert Murat was designated an arguido.

http://thetapas9janetanner.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/jane-tanner-and-framing-of-robert-murat.html
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 06:03:08 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2014, 05:18:11 PM »
As I asked earlier, if Jane Tanner had id'ed Murat why is there no signed statement to that effect?  It's rather an important piece of evidence after all.  And if she did sign a statement that has been squirrelled away in a secret file then she would have to be a very brazen liar indeed to claim she never id'ed him, knowing she could be proven a liar whenever the police chose to remind her of her statement.

Offline John

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2014, 05:56:45 PM »
The events according to Goncal Amaral.

A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.