So what is the evidence for abduction?

[pathfinder73]

So is this evidence for the abduction then?

Nah evidence of abduction just like in the Prout case. Eddie alerted there and more times in this case.Do you think Prout was no longer a suspect by the police because he was a nice man and they believed his truthful police statements? Or does it prove that no longer being suspects in a case doesn't mean shit and what is going on behind the scenes is totally different. You never let the suspects know that you are on to them. You play them Alfie just like in the film.

[Wonderfulspam]

Nah evidence of abduction just like in the Prout case. Eddie alerted there and more times in this case.Do you think Prout was no longer a suspect by the police because he was a nice man and they believed his truthful police statements? Or does it prove that no longer being suspects in a case doesn't mean shit and what is going on behind the scenes is totally different. You never let the suspects know that you are on to them. You play them Alfie just like the film.

They let them know when Tannerman bit the dust, PF.

[Anna]

No, I think it's your lot that should be posting that abduction evidence stuff, however, there doesn't appear to much, if any, getting posted at the moment.

There's a reason for that.

It's cos there ain't none.

How can one know what happened to MM without any evidence to support it. Saying you know what happened to her, is rubbish and untruthful.
 I prefer to stick with evidence and fact and would never say, as some do "that I know" because that is impossible, in the real world, unless you happen to be or are involved with whoever was responsible for MMs disappearance of course.

[Brietta]

Sometimes there are pointers that something may be amiss that when looked at in retrospect immediately fall into place. 

There certainly seems to have been something unique about apartment 5a when witness accounts are looked at; I doubt it was usual for all apartments to be scrutinised in the way that particular apartment was over what appeared to be an extended period.

I don't think it could have been staked out for the purpose of burglary; there are no reports of a burglary taking place there despite the targeting of other apartments in the block.


A Mark Warner nanny was shocked to encounter a man lurking in the darkness at the front of the apartment block; this frightening incident was reported to her employers who apparently did not think it important enough to inform the police about it.

They also took good care not to inform guests about intrusions at the resort.

 
“ … six months before the incident with Maddie there could have been an abduction attempt from the same apartment that was let to the McCann family”.

“ … she was working as a babysitter in the same apartment that the girl was abducted from. She confirms that the events occurred on a Thursday night. Thursday nights were known as the "tennis nights" and on that night the girl's parents were out playing tennis.”

“She left by the front door and in the darkness, by the movement sensitive lights, she saw something move and thought its was a rat. To her surprise, when she examined it closely, she saw that it was a brown shoe of a man who was watching the dark zone outside the apartments. She shouted and the man came out of the darkness, the lights were activated at which point he came towards her and said "No, no".

She said the man was aged between 25 - 35 years, with a Mediterranean aspect with tight black curly hair. She is certain that he had a Mediterranean accent, surely Portuguese. From the only two words he said. He wore light coloured trousers and a blue checked shirt.

After this she returned to the apartment in a state of shock, it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

[sadie]

Sometimes there are pointers that something may be amiss that when looked at in retrospect immediately fall into place. 

There certainly seems to have been something unique about apartment 5a when witness accounts are looked at; I doubt it was usual for all apartments to be scrutinised in the way that particular apartment was over what appeared to be an extended period.

I don't think it could have been staked out for the purpose of burglary; there are no reports of a burglary taking place there despite the targeting of other apartments in the block.


A Mark Warner nanny was shocked to encounter a man lurking in the darkness at the front of the apartment block; this frightening incident was reported to her employers who apparently did not think it important enough to inform the police about it.

They also took good care not to inform guests about intrusions at the resort.

 
“ … six months before the incident with Maddie there could have been an abduction attempt from the same apartment that was let to the McCann family”.

“ … she was working as a babysitter in the same apartment that the girl was abducted from. She confirms that the events occurred on a Thursday night. Thursday nights were known as the "tennis nights" and on that night the girl's parents were out playing tennis.”

“She left by the front door and in the darkness, by the movement sensitive lights, she saw something move and thought its was a rat. To her surprise, when she examined it closely, she saw that it was a brown shoe of a man who was watching the dark zone outside the apartments. She shouted and the man came out of the darkness, the lights were activated at which point he came towards her and said "No, no".

She said the man was aged between 25 - 35 years, with a Mediterranean aspect with tight black curly hair. She is certain that he had a Mediterranean accent, surely Portuguese. From the only two words he said. He wore light coloured trousers and a blue checked shirt.

After this she returned to the apartment in a state of shock, it was obvious that there was no good reason for him to be hiding in the darkness outside the apartment.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

Read it in the past few days, but cant remember where.  The front door light was hanging from its cable and broken.  I wonder if it had been deliberately broken?

[Brietta]

Read it in the past few days, but cant remember where.  The front door light was hanging from its cable and broken.  I wonder if it had been deliberately broken?

I think it was mentioned in the files, Sadie, I don't recall if it was a pre-McCann guest or someone who rented the flat after them.  But I think I read that it was reported to maintenance that the security light was out - I seem to recall that it was fixed.

Margaret Hall provided details to make an efit ... http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-nannys-new-sketch-329189

[Mr Gray]

Apparently the evidence of the abduction is the absence of a car outside ones house.
There are many reasons why the car may not still be there having been left overnight. The insurance company will not pay out (what do we know about insurance companies?) and the police will not take too much notice until all other the possibilities have been eliminated leaving only theft as the reason.

precisely...and this is exactly what has happened in the McCann case

[Alice Purjorick]

precisely...and this is exactly what has happened in the McCann case

I don't think you really mean that in the context of my post. Similar to in principle maybe but not exactly the same as; always provided that DCI Redwood's comment about "may not have left the apartment alive"  and Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe's use of the "M" word are ignored for convenience as we say. Not to mention any other lines of inquiry two police forces may be following which we are not being told about.

[Alice Purjorick]

Guest "buzz" who started this thread seems to have omitted a salient point or two.
It is a few pages late but how about some definitions in time honoured legal, contract and specification fashion?
Using the OED, you know the one that has a magnifying glass on little legs rather than the one that goes in ones handbag or pocket, we have:-
Abduction = the carrying off or kidnapping  a person illegally or by force or deception.
Evidence  = the available facts, circumstances etc supporting or otherwise a belief proposition etc or indicating whether or not a thing is true or valid. OR at Law = information given personally or drawn from a document tending to prove a fact or proposition. OR at law again = statements or proofs admissible in court as testimony.
It seems that using these definitions evidence of abduction is minimal to zero.
Unless of course one wishes to adopt the John Bird/George Mparrbe approach...."what you has to understand is in da context of dis case de OED don't count for nothing, evidence and abduction mean what I say they does".

[Brietta]

From the ridiculous to the ludicrous.

Wonder if you would care to explain what is ludicrous about

 * A man lurking in the darkness in bushes anxious not to be seen
 * A man hiding in the darkness in a place he had no right to be
 * A man hiding in a place to which he had to go considerably out of his way if ‘caught short’
 * A man hiding in the darkness outside an apartment from which a child later disappears
 * The witness not being asked to provide details to enable the authorities to produce an efit
 * The only efit of the man being produced by a tabloid newspaper

You are in denial that Madeleine may have been abducted; Margaret hall was a credible witness who had information worth investigating to be ruled in or out; so it probably was ludicrous that it took a tabloid newspaper to do the investigation and produce an efit that looks as if it had been drawn up by a child.

If eye witness statements are not investigated thoroughly, in a crime of abduction where often no clues are left, there will be 'no evidence of abduction' nor will there be any chance of cracking the case (and Margaret's sighting is a case in point although there are others who had difficulty in being taken seriously and were ignored, some we know about others we may not).  "Ridiculous" and "ludicrous" does tend to sum that situation up.

[Alice Purjorick]

Am I the only one with a bent enough mind to think this:
With all the dodgy geezers, ne'er do wells, chuggers, spotty herberts etc hanging about outside apartment 5A why were the GNR not called out for crowd control duties?

[sadie]

Am I the only one with a bent enough mind to think this:
With all the dodgy geezers, ne'er do wells, chuggers, spotty herberts etc hanging about outside apartment 5A why were the GNR not called out for crowd control duties?

Simples.  I am surprised that a man of your intellect hadn't realised it.

There was nothing collective about it.   They were all individual people who spotted the ne'er do wells and they didn't even realise that others had seen the same.

Would you ring the Police [especially the PT police ! .. and language probs] cos in your opinion someone was watching something that was nothing to do with you?  I bet you wouldn't.

[Eleanor]

Back On Topic, please.  Evidence of Abduction.

[Mr Gray]

I don't think you really mean that in the context of my post. Similar to in principle maybe but not exactly the same as; always provided that DCI Redwood's comment about "may not have left the apartment alive"  and Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe's use of the "M" word are ignored for convenience as we say. Not to mention any other lines of inquiry two police forces may be following which we are not being told about.

The  statement that maddie may not have left the apartment alive, or the M word does not have the significance you think it does. Redwood has made it clear that The McCanns are neither suspects or persons of interest. Redwood may not have checked his dictionary to see whether abduction applies only to  a living person. As you will remember from your latin...it is derived from the word "abducare" which simply means to take away

[Alice Purjorick]

The  statement that maddie may not have left the apartment alive, or the M word does not have the significance you think it does. Redwood has made it clear that The McCanns are neither suspects or persons of interest. Redwood may not have checked his dictionary to see whether abduction applies only to  a living person. As you will remember from your latin...it is derived from the word "abducare" which simply means to take away

I regret Latin is all Greek to me as it were, dear sir.
You seem to be struggling here if I may say, your basic premise is erroneous; like Moses you supposes erroneously.
I was merely pointing out what has been said vis a vis lines of investigation that have been owned up to so to speak and the fact that there are likely others that have not been owned up to. The Portuguese who it must be said have primacy in this case are revealing very little. Believe it or not I will not cheer should the McCanns ever be found guilty of anything. I do however find all the haraz the case generates quite bizarre and disproportionate considering the number of children who will have been abused, murdered , shot, starved to death and blown to bits quite unremarked since 3rd May 2007.