Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories  (Read 236715 times)

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Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #225 on: July 12, 2012, 09:06:08 PM »
JB certainly has given oscar winning performances  8(8-))

He craves the publicity.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline starryian

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #226 on: July 12, 2012, 09:06:14 PM »
I find your posts most informative Ian.  You have included a lot of details which could have been lost for all sorts of reason.

I was thinking about Julie's statement and the "I should have been an actor" comment made by Jeremy bamber.  Julie had no reason to make up such a silly comment which for me makes it all the more believable.
Good point John. Yes that comment was alluded and confirmed to by none other than DS Stan Jones who was present when this took place. Bamber took Julie into an upstairs bedroom after her arrival at his cottage in Goldhanger. It was then that Jones says he heard a noise that sounded like a chuckle. Julie Mugford confirmed this in her statement that Jeremy hugged me and whispered into my ear "I should have been an actor" and he let out a giggle.
This was the noise that Jones overheard. It was Bamber callously bragging about his own 'ingenuity.'
Starryian..

Dillon

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #227 on: July 12, 2012, 09:19:33 PM »
It would be boring if all those who are convinced that Bamber is guilty sang from the same hymn sheet when trying to understand his personality and behaviour. There is a lot that we really do notunderstand.  To me it is a mystery that he became an apparently psychopathic killer and I accept that I do not have insight into the process which in his case led to his developing a personality disorder with such lethal consequences. Yes, there are a variety of grief reactions, some of them culturally mediated. Arguably someone socialised in a public school or military background might be better at submerging their emotions and putting on the traditional stiff upper lip. West African friends, in contrast, tend to display a much more overt expression of grief. However, it is the greed and disregard for the memory of his dead sister which in my eyes is most inappropriate. In another context, where there was clear evidence that Bamber could not have been guilty, such inappropriate behaviour might have been explicable in another way, for example that his personality fitted with a degree of Asberger's Syndrome.     

Offline starryian

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #228 on: July 12, 2012, 10:36:13 PM »
It would be boring if all those who are convinced that Bamber is guilty sang from the same hymn sheet when trying to understand his personality and behaviour. There is a lot that we really do notunderstand.  To me it is a mystery that he became an apparently psychopathic killer and I accept that I do not have insight into the process which in his case led to his developing a personality disorder with such lethal consequences. Yes, there are a variety of grief reactions, some of them culturally mediated. Arguably someone socialised in a public school or military background might be better at submerging their emotions and putting on the traditional stiff upper lip. West African friends, in contrast, tend to display a much more overt expression of grief. However, it is the greed and disregard for the memory of his dead sister which in my eyes is most inappropriate. In another context, where there was clear evidence that Bamber could not have been guilty, such inappropriate behaviour might have been explicable in another way, for example that his personality fitted with a degree of Asberger's Syndrome.     
Dillon I agree with your analysis. It is, of course, a mystery how any psychopath develops let alone one as murderous as Bamber. Personally and looking at the evidence I believe Bamber was not 'born bad' but developed psychopathy. Here are some thoughts of mine. I am certainly no psychologist but I have had some psychological training.
They are just ideas that I have according to the evidence.The key moment in his life appears to have been him being sent away to boarding school. This traumatic severence from his mother may have forced him to shut down emotionally in order to protect himself from the emotions that would may otherwise have overwhelmed him. Boarding school can be a very tough, unyielding place where one has to be tough to survive. The shutting down was a way of coping with his surroundings. The problem is, is that the shutting down becomes deeply ingrained and irreversible. Normal emotional development would be stunted and attachments to others become more difficult. At this time a sense of self-reliance and insular arrogance would have developed. The overwhelming belief that whatever he did would be right. This insularity becomes more pronounced as he grew into adulthood where he tries to rationalise himself and his situation. He comes to the conclusion that his parents dont love him and adopted him, shuned him in his hour of need and now use him as a slave simply to work on the farm. This develops later into a full blown hatred of his family and soon develops a distorted view of his own importance and entitlement. His parents are now nothing to him but an ongoing nuisance. The rest of his family -Sheila and her boys also fall into this category. He withdraws completely and treats his family with the contempt he thinks they deserve. It was probably (according to Julie Mugford) around the winter of 1984 when he first entertained thoughts of killing his family. Bamber would have seen every action by his parents in a very negative way. He would have interpreted for example, the incidence when he was a child of his mother accidently dropping him on his head. This would now be seen by Bamber as evidence of her utter neglect and further proof of her distain for him. He would only interpret events that would reinforce the reasons why he must kill them. By early spring 1985 Bamber was probably at the point of no return. He burgled the caravan site because he knew that the family would be dead soon and it wouldn't matter anyway. It was also his way of saying 'I can do whatever I like and I hate you' to his parents. It was also that summer that Bamber has begun to ask Sheila when she would be coming to stay with the twins - something he had never done before. A deadly, concerted plan was clearly underway.
Bamber was now committed to killing them all. The greed was, I believe a secondary issue to the first. The first being to brake free of the control that he felt he parents exerted over him. The inheritance would provide him with the independence he so craved and buy him the lifestyle which he believed to be his by right.
A murderous psychopath was now, in all intents and purposes stalking the family, silently watching, waiting for the opportunity to strike. Bamber got the opportunity on the night of 6/7th August 1985 and he grabbed it with both hands. He had Planned it out very carefully, thinking he'd left no clues. He probably obtained a high degree of satisfaction from the knowledge that he'd committed the 'perfect murder'. A set of murders that he assumed would never be uncovered.
These are my thoughts on the twisted development of Jeremy Bamber. Please feel free to add any.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:20:53 PM by starryian »
Starryian..

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #229 on: July 12, 2012, 10:43:16 PM »
I got a nasty message from Poppymeze tonight she must have heard I was on here

Offline Jerry

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #230 on: July 12, 2012, 11:15:54 PM »
I got a nasty message from Poppymeze tonight she must have heard I was on here

It took her long enough Jackie.   @)(++(*

jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #231 on: July 12, 2012, 11:59:07 PM »
That's what I thought Jerry but it will probably be a relentless onslaught now 8(8-))

Offline ActualMat

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #232 on: July 13, 2012, 12:14:23 AM »
Who's that, Jackie?

Offline Jerry

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #233 on: July 13, 2012, 12:27:35 AM »
Who's that, Jackie?

Poppy Ann Miller the twitter gal.   @)(++(*

http://twitter.com/PoppyMeze

Dillon

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #234 on: July 13, 2012, 12:38:49 AM »
It would be boring if all those who are convinced that Bamber is guilty sang from the same hymn sheet when trying to understand his personality and behaviour. There is a lot that we really do notunderstand.  To me it is a mystery that he became an apparently psychopathic killer and I accept that I do not have insight into the process which in his case led to his developing a personality disorder with such lethal consequences. Yes, there are a variety of grief reactions, some of them culturally mediated. Arguably someone socialised in a public school or military background might be better at submerging their emotions and putting on the traditional stiff upper lip. West African friends, in contrast, tend to display a much more overt expression of grief. However, it is the greed and disregard for the memory of his dead sister which in my eyes is most inappropriate. In another context, where there was clear evidence that Bamber could not have been guilty, such inappropriate behaviour might have been explicable in another way, for example that his personality fitted with a degree of Asberger's Syndrome.     
Dillon I agree with your analysis. It is, of course, a mystery how any psychopath develops let alone one as murderous as Bamber. Personally and looking at the evidence I believe Bamber was not 'born bad' but developed psychopathy. Here are some thoughts of mine. I am certainly no psychologist but I have had some psychological training.
They are just ideas that I have according to the evidence.The key moment in his life appears to have been him being sent away to boarding school. This traumatic severence from his mother may have forced him to shut down emotionally in order to protect himself from the emotions that would may otherwise have overwhelmed him. Boarding school can be a very tough, unyielding place where one has to be tough to survive. The shutting down was a way of coping with his surroundings. The problem is, is that the shutting down becomes deeply ingrained and irreversible. Normal emotional development would be stunted and attachments to others become more difficult. At this time a sense of self-reliance and insular arrogance would have developed. The overwhelming belief that whatever he did would be right. This insularity becomes more pronounced as he grew into adulthood where he tries to rationalise himself and his situation. He comes to the conclusion that his parents dont love him and adopted him, shuned him in his hour of need and now use him as a slave simply to work on the farm. This develops later into a full blown hatred of his family and soon develops a distorted view of his own importance and entitlement. His parents are now nothing to him but an ongoing nuisance. The rest of his family -Sheila and her boys also fall into this category. He withdraws completely and treats his family with the contempt he thinks they deserve. It was probably (according to Julie Mugford) around the winter of 1984 when he first entertained thoughts of killing his family. Bamber would have seen every action by his parents in a very negative way. He would have interpreted for example, the incidence when he was a child of his mother accidently dropping him on his head. This would now be seen by Bamber as evidence of her utter neglect and further proof of her distain for him. He would only interpret events that would reinforce the reasons why he must kill them. By early spring 1985 Bamber was probably at the point of no return. He burgled the caravan site because he knew that the family would be dead soon and it wouldn't matter anyway. It was also his way of saying 'I can do whatever I like and I hate you' to his parents. It was also that summer that Bamber has begun to ask Sheila when she would be coming to stay with the twins - something he had never done before. A deadly, concerted plan was clearly underway.
Bamber was now committed to killing them all. The greed was, I believe a secondary issue to the first. The first being to brake free of the control that he felt he parents exerted over him. The inheritance would provide him with the independence he so craved and buy him the lifestyle which he believed to be his by right.
A murderous psychopath was now, in all intents and purposes stalking the family, silently watching, waiting for the opportunity to strike. Bamber got the opportunity on the night of 6/7th August 1985 and he grabbed it with both hands. He had Planned it out very carefully, thinking he'd left no clues. He probably obtained a high degree of satisfaction from the knowledge that he'd committed the 'perfect murder'. A set of murders that he assumed would never be uncovered.
These are my thoughts on the twisted development of Jeremy Bamber. Please feel free to add any.

I think that you make some very interesting points. I wonder whether the seeds of insecurity and a sense of rejection may be sown even in the first few weeks and months of life. Some children put up for adoption in that era of unmarried mothers homes and adoption societies run by the churches may have been deprived of the love, bonding and stimulation that I feel is so important . These could be harsh, moralistic establishments run to strict routines where it must have been difficult for natural mothers who were going to lose their babies anyway to provide the emotional input that is imo needed at this critical stage of a child's development. And probably no fathers or grandparents etc on the scene either.

Everything that I have heard about June and Nevill confirms that they were  loving, caring adoptive parents. Sheila and Jeremy appear to have had happy early childhoods in idyllic surroundings, attending kindly, soft local schools.
Then, wham ! Boarding school, and having been through that mill Iknow it can be tough, but how much more so for adopted children. A well intentioned move but possibly very harmful on top of much earlier rejection as infants.
Children in these establishments can be very cruel and it is said that Jeremy acquired the nickname " The b........ " at Greshams having confided in a " friend" that he had been adopted.

Later on Jeremy may have come to feel more and more trapped in the farming life. Hardworking, achieving farmers like Nevill are often desperately keen to see at least one son maintain the dynasty. Farmers often have this huge emotional attachment to their land. So Jeremy would have felt a lot of pressure. It may not have been in his genetics. These farming families go on generation after generation. Then he was being introduced to the joys of the big city with trips to see his sister and perhaps the hippyish, artistic influence of her partner, Colin. and others.
I have mentioned before, that he told someone I knew well at a shoot not long before the murders that his ambition was to work in London in something like the music business and made it clear that he was not interested in farming. Nevill would have probably found it very difficult to understand this sort of ambition.

Speculative, I know, but maybe part way to understanding how he became such a damaged personality. Nevertheless, other people survive backgrounds with such pressures and feelings of rejection so maybe there were also " nature" as well as " nurture " factors involved.   

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #235 on: July 13, 2012, 01:15:33 AM »
I believe there is much truth in what you post Dillon.  Jeremy's wanderlust seems to have started after he left boarding school.  He had two trips down under so there must have been some sort of attraction for him there.  I know that he was supposed to have been on a diver training course but he could have undertaken the same thing in the UK and most probably been better trained as well.

It is strange that June had to send him £2000 to get him home in what looked like a bit of a hurry.  What was he so desperate to get away from I wonder?

There was talk of criminally activity in association with Collins when they were in New Zealand and Collins did appear to have been known to the New Zealand Police.  They even managed to send his fingerprints to Essex Police so they could compare them with what they had lifted from the crime scene. 

Now an interesting point, why would Essex Police need to have done that if they had Collins in the flesh and could have taken his fingerprints at any time? 

Could it have been that they were suspicious of Collins' real identity given what Robert Boutflour had found out about him and Jeremy??
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 01:21:33 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline starryian

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #236 on: July 13, 2012, 09:56:16 AM »
I believe there is much truth in what you post Dillon.  Jeremy's wanderlust seems to have started after he left boarding school.  He had two trips down under so there must have been some sort of attraction for him there.  I know that he was supposed to have been on a diver training course but he could have undertaken the same thing in the UK and most probably been better trained as well.

It is strange that June had to send him £2000 to get him home in what looked like a bit of a hurry.  What was he so desperate to get away from I wonder?

There was talk of criminally activity in association with Collins when they were in New Zealand and Collins did appear to have been known to the New Zealand Police.  They even managed to send his fingerprints to Essex Police so they could compare them with what they had lifted from the crime scene. 

Now an interesting point, why would Essex Police need to have done that if they had Collins in the flesh and could have taken his fingerprints at any time? 

Could it have been that they were suspicious of Collins' real identity given what Robert Boutflour had found out about him and Jeremy??
Very interesting points John,
The diving point is very interesting. I have discovered that he was in fact advised that a career in diving may have been out of the question due to an injury he received to his skull when he was a baby (the water pressure would have aggrivated it). The incidently referred to in my earlier post when June accidently dropped Jeremy. June was understandably mortified and felt guilty about it for a very long time afterwards. It took soothing words from Nevil to help put the incident finally behind her. Jeremy, true-to-form blamed June for the loss of his 'dream career' Julie Mugford later stated that Jeremy never forgave her.
It highlights very clearly the utter inability of a psychopath to empathise with another human being and understand very human frailties and faults. Bamber was totally incapable of this.
Starryian..

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #237 on: July 13, 2012, 11:45:19 AM »
I believe there is much truth in what you post Dillon.  Jeremy's wanderlust seems to have started after he left boarding school.  He had two trips down under so there must have been some sort of attraction for him there.  I know that he was supposed to have been on a diver training course but he could have undertaken the same thing in the UK and most probably been better trained as well.

It is strange that June had to send him £2000 to get him home in what looked like a bit of a hurry.  What was he so desperate to get away from I wonder?

There was talk of criminally activity in association with Collins when they were in New Zealand and Collins did appear to have been known to the New Zealand Police.  They even managed to send his fingerprints to Essex Police so they could compare them with what they had lifted from the crime scene. 

Now an interesting point, why would Essex Police need to have done that if they had Collins in the flesh and could have taken his fingerprints at any time? 

Could it have been that they were suspicious of Collins' real identity given what Robert Boutflour had found out about him and Jeremy??
Very interesting points John,
The diving point is very interesting. I have discovered that he was in fact advised that a career in diving may have been out of the question due to an injury he received to his skull when he was a baby (the water pressure would have aggrivated it). The incidently referred to in my earlier post when June accidently dropped Jeremy. June was understandably mortified and felt guilty about it for a very long time afterwards. It took soothing words from Nevil to help put the incident finally behind her. Jeremy, true-to-form blamed June for the loss of his 'dream career' Julie Mugford later stated that Jeremy never forgave her.
It highlights very clearly the utter inability of a psychopath to empathise with another human being and understand very human frailties and faults. Bamber was totally incapable of this.

I forgot to add the most important point to my post earlier and the whole reason for making it.

You are correct when you say it was his 'dream job' because farming certainly wasn't.  Your point about farmers having to be born farmers is quite correct Dillon and it goes back many generations with most farming families.

Jeremy would never have been a farmer.  Had he had the slightest interest he would have been more concerned with the farm and saving the business than he was with running around like a headless chicken.  Barbara Wilson and Peter Eaton were left to do the needful at a time when they needed leadership and not stupidity. No wonder Peter did what he did, he could see the whole lot being sold off just like the family silver.

Nevill knew that mummy's boy Bamber would never make the grain as far as farming was concerned and it is not too far fetched to realise that Nevill had high hopes for Daniel and Nicholas, hopes which Jeremy Bamber came to see and which he was jealous of.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Joanne

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #238 on: July 13, 2012, 11:58:42 AM »
Jeremy Bamber is like the Lord Lucan of his day, wants the money but doesn't want to work for it. The main difference is Lord Lucan pulled a fast one when he clobbered Sandra Rivett, JB stayed.

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories
« Reply #239 on: July 13, 2012, 12:16:54 PM »
Jeremy Bamber is like the Lord Lucan of his day, wants the money but doesn't want to work for it. The main difference is Lord Lucan pulled a fast one when he clobbered Sandra Rivett, JB stayed.

Do you think Lord Lucan is alive and well and living it up somewhere?

What we do know is before vanishing off the face of the earth, Lord Lucan drove 45 miles south to seek refuge with friends in Uckfield, East Sussex.  Peter and Susan Maxwell-Scott were loyal members of Lord Lucan's inner circle, people he could trust with his life.  They lived in Grants Hill House, a large manor house set in acres of gardens, with a swimming pool and several tennis courts. After being let into the house, Lucan was never seen again - he simply vanished into thin air.

Neil Bellis also resides near Uckfield...isn't it a small world?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:19:29 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.