I know I stand alone here.....there is nobody else on here who is/has been in my position....however, I thank you all for treating me with the up most respect...and you all make valid points. Points I cannot argue with, because, I agree with almost all that you have said.
I'll be honest!! Having read your replies.....I have to ask myself, 'Was I so gullible? Have I been taken in for years by this man?'
'I honestly don't know!'. I'd be mighty surprised if I had. For some years I would spend 12 hours most weekends with him.
When I was not visiting, he would be phoning me many times a day. We shared a lot and I know he took me into his confidence. I knew things that nobody else knew.
I was beside him through two Appeals....the second one bringing him to his knees where he was on suicide watch.
I cannot recall him blaming anyone. He was not a person to look outside himself and blame others for his downfall - he looked within himself at his own failings and was not slow in admitting his shortcomings.
Am I deluded?
I question it all.
No you are certainly not deluded AA. You were a person that believed in another. We have all been there at some point in our lives. We have all probably had experiences with people who whom we believed a great deal in and trusted - whether they be best friends, wives, husbands, lawyers, business partners etc etc. It is very difficult for anyone to believe that they have been lie to or deceived in any way especially someone with whom we have placed so much trust. You had the double-whammy as it were because the person you trusted made a life for himself abusing such trust and betraying others. There is no disgrace in this AA. You are a decent human being who just happened to believe in the wrong person. This is OK because it will make you stronger and wiser for the experience. No-one will judge you and no-one will ever cast aspersions because of who Bamber was. He was and remains a manipulative, lying psychopath. These people deceive others for a living.
I suspect that the face and the voice you experienced in Bamber was a very diiferent one to the one he portrayed elsewhere. Bamber is adept at showing the appropriate 'face' to those present or those that matter at any given moment. Believe you me, Bamber does indeed blame others - consistently and often, for his predicament. He blamed the relatives, he blamed Julie Mugford and - during an interview recorded for a book about the crime called Murder At White House Farm by Claire Powell he persistently stated that his relatives would 'pay for it' when he got out. He included Colin Caffell, Robert and David Boutflour. He blamed them endlessly.
Remember, AA a psychopath is totally incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions. They are emotional mimics in that they cannot experience emotion like ordinary people........they have to copy it. Often they get this wrong and get noticed by others who understandably think they are simply over-reacting. This happened at his parents funerals where it was noticeable to shrewd observers that Bamber was faking it. He was actually mimicking the grief of Colin Caffell but over did it somewhat dramatically. Bamber is an excellent actor and able to display an array of 'faces' to different people depending on who they were and what their usefulness to him actually was at that particular time.
I am sure AA you know what I am talking about here. You may have seen this actually happen but may have dismissed it at the time. There was an example of Jeremy visiting Colin Caffell after the funeral of the twins in London. when Bamber was clearly conning Colin by cosying-up to him, when just hours before he was railling against him. Julie Mugford saw it and was appalled by it. She also stated that Jeremy's behaviour at Colin's flat was little short of reprehensible. He was caught by Colin Caffell running up the stairs in a towel with Brett Collins covered in soap foam laughing like a drain. A totally inappropriate and disgustingly callous thing to do in a flat of a man that has just lost two of his own sons. Other examples include DS Stan Jones unexpectedly walking into the front room at Bourtree Cottage and catching Bamber inappropriately smirking just hours after the killings and who can ever forget the infamous 'I should have been an actor' line laughing whispered to Julie Mugford? Bamber is indeed the master of deceipt. So please place no trust in what he did or what he said. It is all an illusion and you are far too good of a person to waste 1 minute of your precious time on such a callous individual as him.
AA your points of view are well received and respected. If you need any advice there are some very knowledgable people on here who, I am sure will be only too happy to help - myself humbly included.
Hello Ian,
Your description of a psycho I would agree with.....applying that to Jeremy, I would find most difficult.
Over the years our meetings or conversations were not all pleasant, we argued and disagreed about some things. I did see many sides to Jeremy, sides to which we all have, and yet I still could not describe him as a psychopath.
He is a very well spoken articulate man who seeks pleasure from helping others. He has taught many to read and write in prison, he has been an ear for those who need to speak. I used to deliver parcels to the prison and I do recall him sharing the contents with another young man who had no family.
Please do not think for one moment I think the sun shines out of his backside...that is far from true and he has many failings.....especially when he wants his own way. He will do whatever is necessary to get what he wants.......but he is not a murderer.
His own arrogance can be quite detrimental......and had he committed these crimes then we would certainly know about it...because he would have told someone or given some indication.
I am sorry AA but a psychopath he is. I really dont think you would have known anyway. He is highly adept at concealing it. I cannot speak for the examples you cite but I know one thing; psychopaths will show their 'caring' side to whomever they want and can turn it on like a tap.
I really dont understand your point that he didnt tell anyone?? He certainly told Julie Mugford.
Moreover dangerous prisoners are famous for either trying to show they are 'helping others' (at least being seen to) or getting religion. Im think it is all part and parcel of Bamber's game to try to raise the prisons authorities perception of him. I would place too much value in that.
I am sorry, I totally disagree with you but I think he is a murderer. He murdered his sister, nephews and parents in cold blood. If you do not believe this of him, I have no problems with that at all, that is your opinion and you are very much entitled to it. However, the courts, the judiciary, the witnesses and many, many others think otherwise. I think he plotted, planned and executed his odious crime to rid himself of a family he absolutely loathed. He gave them absolutely no chance that night when he broke into the house and brutally murdered them all. I also think that he is, without doubt a manipulative psychopath. True-to-form, since imprisonment he has plotted, planned and schemed his way to two appeals. The judges have seen throught them for what they were. Again, if you think otherwise........no problem here.
There is only ONE person that murdered those poor, innocent people and he is unlikely to ever be released.
