Kevin Halligen. McCanns and the Conman. Ch5 documentary.

[Carana]

I believe, what is illegal by Portuguese law, is to conduct a private investigation on Portuguese soil in parallel with an official PJ police investigation (obviously into the same matter) ...

I've heard this loads of times, but if it's illegal, there must be something in the penal code to that effect. Perhaps I simply haven't found it yet.

[Mr Gray]

I believe, what is illegal by Portuguese law, is to conduct a private investigation on Portuguese soil in parallel with an official PJ police investigation (obviously into the same matter) ...

so had the case been shelved when Oakley got involved

[stephen25000]

So if the mccanns went to Portugal and physically searched...asked questions...according to Stephen they would be arrested

Not quite what I said, was it dave ?

[Carana]

so had the case been shelved when Oakley got involved

It hadn't been shelved by the prosecutor at that stage, but the final PJ report was signed off in June.

It's this blanket statement that private investigations are illegal on PT soil that I don't understand.

If they had been interfering with or hampering an active investigation, then it would make more sense to me.

Loads of kind citizen helpers may have unwittingly interfered even by innocently picking up objects that they may have thought relevant and handing them to the police. People all over the place were watching out for any little blonde-haired little girl in what may have seemed to have been odd circumstances, and many reported any "suspicious" activity to the police. Should every well-meaning citizen also be open to prosecution?

[ferryman]

It's this blanket statement that private investigations are illegal on PT soil that I don't understand.

I don't think it's quite a blanket statement.

Indeed it can't be, because I seem to recall that, way back, I researched it a little and discovered that there are private investigating agencies based in Portugal, which obviously there wouldn't be if private investigations in Portugal were illegal.

I think it's just that you can't conduct a private investigation in parallel with an official investigation into the same matter.

[Carana]

It's this blanket statement that private investigations are illegal on PT soil that I don't understand.

I don't think it's quite a blanket statement.

Indeed it can't be, because I seem to recall that, way back, I researched it a little and discovered that there are private investigating agencies based in Portugal, which obviously there wouldn't be if private investigations in Portugal were illegal.

I think it's just that you can't conduct a private investigation in parallel with an official investigation into the same matter.

Possibly, but check my questions further up.

Even if it is in relation to the same matter:

1. what exactly is the difference between a private investigation and well-intentioned citizens, tourists, whatever (possibly in an informal group) trying to help?

2. where is there a definition of a "private investigation" and an article in the penal code relating to it to distinguish it from point 1?

ETA: Yes, I understand your point about "into the same matter", but I still don't understand what is supposed to be illegal per se.

[Mr Moderator]

The Fund hired the detective firm. Which articles in the penal code state that a private investigation is illegal? What did they actually do out there that was more than what the dozens of ordinary citizens were doing who were trying to help find her? When were they actually out there? The PJ final report was signed off on 20th of June 2008.

Birch has been accused of trespassing.

Who are the Madeleine Fund directors?   Each one of them is individually and severally libel for instructing, authorising, funding and condoning what amounts to criminal activity in Portugal.

[Carana]

Who are the Madeleine Fund directors?   Each one of them is individually and severally libel for instructing, authorising, funding and condoning what amounts to criminal activity in Portugal.

What criminal activity?

[Mr Moderator]

What criminal activity?

Undertaking a private criminal inquiry contrary to Portuguese Law.  It must be remembered that the actions of these incompetents jeopardised the official investigation.  In several instances witnesses complained of harassment.

[Carana]

Undertaking a private criminal inquiry contrary to Portuguese Law.  It must be remembered that the actions of these incompetents jeopardised the official investigation.  In several instances witnesses complained of harassment.

Again, what is against Portuguese law? Could you cite the specific articles of the penal code on this? I'd be interested.

In what way did the McCanns jeopardise the official investigation? Where is this corroborated in the files?

[Mr Moderator]

Look it up Carana, it's all there on Google.

An interesting article was published by the Telegraph on this very issue.  Curiously, a McCann spokesperson attempted to mitigate the damage by excusing the actions as merely advisory.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564121/Madeleine-McCann-police-fury-over-private-hunt.html

[Carana]

Look it up Carana, it's all there on Google.

An interesting article was published by the Telegraph on this very issue.  Curiously, a McCann spokesperson attempted to mitigate the damage by excusing the actions as merely advisory.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564121/Madeleine-McCann-police-fury-over-private-hunt.html

Is that the the source of this rumour?

LOL.

That seems as reliable as the 100% DNA profile in the Scenic...

Madeleine McCann police fury over private hunt
Gerry and Kate McCann were accused of using diversion tactics
The McCanns were accused of using diversion tactics

By Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz

1:25PM BST 25 Sep 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann provoked the fury of the Portuguese authorities after it was revealed they had hired private investigators to help find their daughter Madeleine.

    In full: The Madeleine McCann case

The couple were accused by police of employing "diversion tactics".

A senior judge said their actions could prompt charges of obstruction of justice in the hunt for the missing four-year-old who has not been seen since May 3.

Under Portuguese law, it is illegal to carry out independent inquiries into a case while a police investigation is ongoing. But it emerged this week that Mr and Mrs McCann hired investigators from Control Risks Group - who specialise in kidnap, hostage and crisis management - at the end of May.
Related Articles

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    24 Sep 2007

    Madeleine McCann police 'must find her body'
    24 Sep 2007

A source close to the couple's legal team insisted they were only working in an advisory role and were not on the ground in Portugal.

But the company – which employs ex-SAS and military personnel – is thought to be focusing on Spain and Morocco, where three sightings of a little blonde girl have now been reported.

In Portugal, figures from both the police and judicial arenas vented their anger about the move.

Antonio Martins, president of the National Association of Portuguese Judges, told the newspaper 24 Horas: "It is still up to the state to carry out criminal investigation. That kind of activity has no legal standing.

"Anything that results from private investigation has no substance."

Mr Martins said the private detectives and even the McCanns themselves could be accused of "obstruction of justice".

Carlos Anjos, the head of Portugal's criminal police federation, added: "This can only be another diversion tactic from the McCanns. It is nothing but folklore.

"Portugal does not have legislation in this area. Private detectives who intervene in criminal cases cannot exist.

"The law only tolerates private detectives who gather information and only about matters of the private lives of certain people like extramarital relationships."

A separate police source warned that the involvement of investigators may not only be illegal but could have a detrimental effect on the inquiry.

The high ranking official told newspaper Correio da Manha: "If private investigators come here they will be running a serious risk of being arrested."

[Mr Moderator]

Are you denying that the McCanns could face a charge of obstructing justice?  I don't see it as a laughing matter, if the Portuguese decide to pursue these events and given the recent writ served on Birch, it will be curtains for the Fund directors.

In fact, anyone would be well within their rights to make a formal complaint to Companies House in respect of these activities.

[Carana]

Carlos Anjos, the head of Portugal's criminal police federation, added: "This can only be another diversion tactic from the McCanns. It is nothing but folklore.

"Portugal does not have legislation in this area. Private detectives who intervene in criminal cases cannot exist.

Did this idea emanate from Carlos Anjos, TV commentator extraordinaire?

[Cariad]

It depends on what the poster is alleging.  The McCanns have not been convicted of any criminal activity on one hand but on the other have as directors of a British Company authorised activities which the Portuguese judiciary consider to be obstruction in a criminal investigation.

That said, it would not be appropriate to refer to the McCanns as "criminals".  This direction is subject to review.

Can we say 'complicit in a criminal act'? Not that I really care about the private investigation, just cause it'll annoy Mr Jones.