The ILOR's and the CPS

[misty]

What a load of rubbish.

The CPS wrote the ILOR's based on the evidence presented to them by Operation Grange.

Evidence including POI's, otherwise the CPS would have no involvement yet, at all.

The CPS had to write ILOR's to access bank accounts and phone records, etc, etc, as well as requesting the right for the Met to interview certain persons of interest, to expand the level of knowledge & evidence. Before Eurojust, this procedure would have taken even longer. I'm not quite sure why you are so focused on the "prosecution" issue & nothing else.

[Silkywhiskers]

The CPS had to write ILOR's to access bank accounts and phone records, etc, etc, as well as requesting the right for the Met to interview certain persons of interest, to expand the level of knowledge & evidence. Before Eurojust, this procedure would have taken even longer. I'm not quite sure why you are so focused on the "prosecution" issue & nothing else.

Whose bank accounts and phone records?

What persons of interest?

We know for a fact none have been interviewed, and most of the ILORs appear to be about a dig.

[John]

The only reason the CPS is involved in this case is because the victim is a British citizen.

[Victoria]

The only reason the CPS is involved in this case is because the victim is a British citizen.

Well, yes. Which is also the only reason the met are involved.

[Carana]

Can you all show me a case where the British CPS involved itself in charging (under British law) a criminal who was not British, nor residing in Britain, nor committing said crime in Britain?

Thanks.

None that I'm aware of *, but I don't see the point of your question, unless you assume that ILORs are only issued in order to prosecute someone.

Types of assistance that can be provided under an LOR include a request:

    to take witness statements
    to search and/or seize property
    to formally interview suspects
    for banking evidence
    for telecommunications data
    to allow UK personnel to travel to the overseas state in question in order to conduct enquiries
    to conduct covert deployments.

ILORs are issued by the CPS.

When the investigation has advanced to a stage that someone is about to be charged, the issue of jurisdiction for prosecution will presumably be determined.

*ETA Although there appears to be provision for it in certain circumstances.

E.g.
Universal jurisdiction (i.e. the state will be able to prosecute regardless of the nationality of the offender, the victim, and where the offence was committed, e.g. torture).
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/jurisdiction/


ETA 2: Actually, it seems that it isn't that clear-cut.

Eurojusts role is to stimulate and facilitate co-operation in the investigation of serious cross-border crime, particularly organised crime. As such it deals with large and complex cross-border cases, usually involving more than two EU Member States. In such cases, where prosecutors cannot reach an agreement, they may refer the case to Eurojust, which can be used as a final arbiter.

Also:
Annex A - Eurojust Guidelines, Annual Report 2003, Making the Decision - "Which Jurisdiction Should Prosecute?"
(from above link).

[misty]

Taken from Sussex Police website Interpol Policy
3 Evidence and International Letters of Request (ILOR)
 
3.1 Many foreign countries, particularly in mainland Europe, use the Napoleonic code of justice that restricts police and law enforcement agencies powers of investigation. In general terms, police carry out the initial steps in an investigation and then hand the case over to an examining magistrate or prosecutor.
 
3.2 The examining magistrate then takes charge of the investigation and directs police as to how they are to conduct it on their behalf. The examining magistrate also has powers to:

    (1) Summons accused / suspected persons and witnesses to appear before him for interview.
    (2) Order the: (a) Search of premises, (b) Seizure of Evidence, (c) Examine bank accounts.

3.3 An ILOR, also known as a Commission Rogatoire (Com. Rog.),  is a written request given by a judicial authority to carry out a procedural action necessary in criminal proceedings.
 
3.4 An ILOR is a judicial document and as such cannot be issued by Police. It is sent through official channels, i.e. from one Ministry of Justice to another.

The UK Ministry of Justice has been in operation since 2007 www.justice.gov.uk  The official channel for receipt and transmission of ILORs is the UK Central Authority for Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, which is located in the Judicial Co-operation Unit at the Home Office.
 
3.5 Although an ILOR is issued for the purpose of gathering evidence to present at a criminal trial, it can be issued whilst the trial is in progress if the request is for supplementary information necessary for the continuation of the proceedings.
 
3.6 ILOR's are obtained through the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and their advice should be sought in the first instance when requesting evidence from persons abroad.
 
3.7 For complete advice in relation to Obtaining assistance overseas, please read the Mutual Legal Assistance Guidelines, found at http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/operational-policing/mutual-legal-assistance/


Does that clarify things for you, Silky Whiskers?

[Silkywhiskers]

Taken from Sussex Police website Interpol Policy
3 Evidence and International Letters of Request (ILOR)
 
3.1 Many foreign countries, particularly in mainland Europe, use the Napoleonic code of justice that restricts police and law enforcement agencies powers of investigation. In general terms, police carry out the initial steps in an investigation and then hand the case over to an examining magistrate or prosecutor.
 
3.2 The examining magistrate then takes charge of the investigation and directs police as to how they are to conduct it on their behalf. The examining magistrate also has powers to:

    (1) Summons accused / suspected persons and witnesses to appear before him for interview.
    (2) Order the: (a) Search of premises, (b) Seizure of Evidence, (c) Examine bank accounts.

3.3 An ILOR, also known as a Commission Rogatoire (Com. Rog.),  is a written request given by a judicial authority to carry out a procedural action necessary in criminal proceedings.
 
3.4 An ILOR is a judicial document and as such cannot be issued by Police. It is sent through official channels, i.e. from one Ministry of Justice to another. 

The UK Ministry of Justice has been in operation since 2007 www.justice.gov.uk  The official channel for receipt and transmission of ILORs is the UK Central Authority for Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, which is located in the Judicial Co-operation Unit at the Home Office.
 
3.5 Although an ILOR is issued for the purpose of gathering evidence to present at a criminal trial, it can be issued whilst the trial is in progress if the request is for supplementary information necessary for the continuation of the proceedings.
 
3.6 ILOR's are obtained through the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and their advice should be sought in the first instance when requesting evidence from persons abroad.
 
3.7 For complete advice in relation to Obtaining assistance overseas, please read the Mutual Legal Assistance Guidelines, found at http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/operational-policing/mutual-legal-assistance/


Does that clarify things for you, Silky Whiskers?

Do you see that?

They hand THE CASE over to the CPS for the appropriate paperwork.

The CPS is the link between the police and the judiciary, and the CPS have zero involvement until THE CASE is finalised and presented to them by LE for prosecution.

The CPS does not INVESTIGATE themselves.  They instruct police, AFTER police have made a case.

Do you understand that?

The CPS has zero role to play in an investigation, they ONLY become involved when LE feel THE CASE is ready for prosecution.

In other words, for the exceedingly stupid, LE already have A CASE which they have presented to the BRITISH CPS who then started telling the British police what was required from a legal standpoint, and they asked for this assistance via ILOR's.

None of which has EVER meant that the CPS are Sherlock Holmes OR able to prosecute foreign individuals for crimes committed in foreign lands.

[misty]

I give up!!
It is clear only the CPS can issue an ILOR. Where, in the instructions above, does it say that the case has to be ready for prosecution? There is another country with another parallel investigation and their own Justice Dept/AG involved here and NO DECISION about which country is going to prosecute anybody has been reached yet. Grrrrrrrr.

[misty]

Yes, do give up.

The only reason the British CPS are involved is because it the charges are expected to be laid IN BRITAIN.

The only reason the charges would be laid in Britain is if the suspects are BRITISH.

What do you not understand?

No. The CPS are involved because the Met have been asked to investigate the case by the UK Government but the Met do not have the authority to request evidence or interviews from Portuguese residents without an ILOR.
You have to build a case before you can present it.
Is Smithman British?

[Silkywhiskers]

No. The CPS are involved because the Met have been asked to investigate the case by the UK Government but the Met do not have the authority to request evidence or interviews from Portuguese residents without an ILOR.
You have to build a case before you can present it.
Is Smithman British?

You do know that the British and Portugese have been working together for years now, don't you?

All you need to do is look at the photographs.

British and Portugese police, all in there together.

We know for a fact that NO ONE has been interviewed and the ILOR's seem to be exclusively about this dig.

So WHY do the British have to wait around for information from Portugal, that they already have?

You are also forgetting the Leics police, who were there in the early days and have a LOT of information that has never been released to the public.

And please tell me yet again - when was the last time the CPS involved itself in a non British crime perpetrated on Non British soil by Non British subjects?

Come on, you insist that they are doing just that so where's the precedent?

[misty]

I

You do know that the British and Portugese have been working together for years now, don't you?

All you need to do is look at the photographs.

British and Portugese police, all in there together.

We know for a fact that NO ONE has been interviewed and the ILOR's seem to be exclusively about this dig.

So WHY do the British have to wait around for information from Portugal, that they already have?

You are also forgetting the Leics police, who were there in the early days and have a LOT of information that has never been released to the public.

And please tell me yet again - when was the last time the CPS involved itself in a non British crime perpetrated on Non British soil by Non British subjects?

Come on, you insist that they are doing just that so where's the precedent?

It is a British crime because the victim is British.
I am sorry if you cannot grasp from official police instructions why the CPS are involved yet you understand why the Met are involved.

[slartibartfast]

I
It is a British crime because the victim is British.
I am sorry if you cannot grasp from official police instructions why the CPS are involved yet you understand why the Met are involved.

So the next time you are mugged in Magaluf, call in SY and the CPS?

[Silkywhiskers]

I
It is a British crime because the victim is British.
I am sorry if you cannot grasp from official police instructions why the CPS are involved yet you understand why the Met are involved.

What a load of crap.

Neil Entwhistle was British, the Brit police EXTRADITED him back to where he committed his crime.

[Silkywhiskers]

Ok, WHO IS THE INVESTIGATING AUTHORITY IN THIS STORY?


British millionaire jeweller Andrew Bush shot dead at Spanish mansion as police hunt model ex-girlfriend
Apr 07, 2014 10:55 By Steve Robson
Andrew Bush, 48, was found shot twice in the head at his estate on the Costa del Sol on Saturday morning

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Police are hunting the ex-lover of a British millionaire gold dealer who was assassinated at his Spanish mansion.

Andrew Bush, 48, was shot twice in the head on Saturday morning at his estate in the Costa del Sol.

Reports in the resort of Estepona suggest police believe he was killed by a gunman who lay in wait for him and his current lover.

His girlfriend told police that they were ambushed by an ex-girlfriend and an accomplice.

Spanish police are now thought to be hunting for model Mayka Kukocova, but they have not confirmed that she is wanted in connection with the murder.

SolarpixModel Mayka Marica Kukucuva is believed to be wanted for questioning by Spanish police 
An Audi believed to have been used by the killer was taken away by police on Saturday along with a Porsche and Ferrari thought to be owned by the dead man.

Andrew's British girlfriend, who has not been named, has apparently told investigators his ex opened the door to them as they returned from a week away.

She called 999 after allegedly being barred entry and seeing the woman speed off in one of Mr Bush's luxury cars before discovering she didn't have keys to get back in.

Police and fire officers climbed over the front of the building where they found his body and the gun lying next to him.

A source close to the investigation said: "It is being treated as murder and police are hunting the dead man's ex on suspicion of committing this crime.

"They are probing the possibility she may have let herself into the property while the occupant was away and waited for several days for him to return."
Andy had been living in Spain but still owns shops in Bristol including Andrew Davids jewellers.

His store at the Galleries Bristol shopping centre was shut today with a sign saying it has been closed until tomorrow.

Getty Images / John HarperEstepona, Costa del Sol, Spain 
A fellow jeweller in the shopping centre said he had been told of the news via email but was too upset to talk.

Another woman who runs a shop opposite said: ''I used to see him around. He was a really nice guy - I can't believe what has happened."

A neighbour, who asked not to be named, added: "All we know is that she's in her early twenties and comes from somewhere in eastern Europe.

"From what I've heard the police are treating it as a terrible act of jealousy.

"I can't begin to imagine what the girlfriend must be feeling right now. She could so easily have been killed as well."

Another added: "Apart from the noise he made with his cars early in the morning, he was a good neighbour who never gave us any cause for concern.

"He kept himself to himself and wasn't around all the time. I've heard he had business interests all over the world although I wasn't sure exactly what he did.

"The only woman I ever saw at the property was a pretty young blonde woman who was British like him.

"She was his current girlfriend. She must have been in her mid to late twenties.

"He kept a boat in the grounds of the house and he always drove nice cars. He had a Hummer which he had resprayed and I've also seen him in a Porsche and a Ferrari."

The Spanish owners of the villa, called Mar Antika, arrived on Saturday to let police seal off the site and a sister of the man is believed to be on her way to Spain.

The villa lies in a quiet residential street in an area called Cancelada between San Pedro and Estepona.

It is a two-minute walk from the beach in one direction and a dual-carriageway known as the New Golden Mile in another.

A National Police spokesman confirmed an investigation was underway after a British man was found dead at a property in Cancelada near Estepona but said he was not authorised to give out any more information.

A spokesman for the local emergency services said: "We received a call at 2.10am on Saturday morning from the partner of the dead man because she could not gain access to the property.

"Firefighters managed to get in and found the man lying dead inside with a gunshot wound to his head. Police are now investigating."



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/andrew-bush-murder-british-millionaire-3381077#ixzz33c9nI8tX
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Why aren't the CPS flying around ILOR's in THIS case?

Anyone?

Could it be because they have NO JURISDICTION?

Quick~~~ send SY to Spain right now!!!! A crime against a Briton has been perpetrated, with ONLY the local plod to investigate!!!!

[misty]

1. He was a Spanish resident, not a holidaymaker.
2. I understand the suspect has been apprehended, so there is no relevance to your post.