Madeleine McCann. Sniffer dogs brought in to help with scrubland dig.

[ferryman]

I confess, I've not read the whole of the thread, so apologies if this point has already been made, but the key point of interest here is that you have two dogs and two handlers, just as it should have been first time around; and just as (I'm fairly certain) the Portuguese dog-handlers operated their dogs (with a one-to-one handler-to-dog-ratio) ...

[stephen25000]

Dear John, I have to wonder who paid for this trip to America as Eddie was owned by The Yorkshire Police at the time and I just can't see them allowing one of their handlers to take one of their dogs to America, and paying for it, especially as this practice was and still is illegal in Britain.

I would have thought the point was fairly obvious Eleanor. The dog would be better trained.

[Eleanor]

I would have thought the point was fairly obvious Eleanor. The dog would be better trained.

It is illegal in Britain to train dogs on human cadaver.  So are you saying that The Police broke the law by allowing one of their dogs to be taken to America to be involved in an illegal practice?


Incidentally, you should read that Cite by Buzz.  It does not say that Eddie was taken to America.  It says that a scent was collected using remote technical equipment.  This method is comparable to the simulation of cross contamination, etc.  Not that I expect anyone to take notice of this.  If you want to believe that Eddie was taken to America while Martin Grime was still employed by The Yorkshire police then be my guest.

A cadaver dog can find tiny specks of blood to a full blown corpse, and anything in between.

[stephen25000]

It is illegal in Britain to train dogs on human cadaver.  So are you saying that The Police broke the law by allowing one of their dogs to be taken to America to be involved in an illegal practice?


Incidentally, you should read that Cite by Buzz.  It does not say that Eddie was taken to America.  It says that a scent was collected using remote technical equipment.  This method is comparable to the simulation of cross contamination, etc.  Not that I expect anyone to take notice of this.  If you want to believe that Eddie was taken to America while Martin Grime was still employed by The Yorkshire police then be my guest.

A cadaver dog can find tiny specks of blood to a full blown corpse, and anything in between.

How is it breaking the law, by taking the dog to to America ?

There it is legal.

Perhaps you should read John's response earlier.

Also, why don't you contact West Yorkshire Police on the issue ?

[Eleanor]

How is it breaking the law, by taking the dog to to America ?

There it is legal.

Perhaps you should read John's response earlier.

Also, why don't you contact West Yorkshire Police on the issue ?

As I said, I just can't see The Police allowing one of their handlers to take one of their dogs to America to be involved in a practice that is illegal in Britain.  I don't know why it is illegal in Britain, but there will be a reason.

John should read the Cite from Buzz.  it does not say that Eddie was taken to America while Martin Grime was employed by, and Eddie was owned by The Yorkshire Police.  Although Martin Grime might have taken Eddie after he bought the dog from The Police, and retired.

Why would I contact The West Yorkshire Police?  I can read you know.

[Benice]

It is rather simple -
The dogs didn't alert in the apartments of the other members of the Tapas group - none of the children of the other Tapas members are missing.
The dogs did alert in the McCann's apartment - one of their children is missing.

That is true, it is also true that Eddie spent longer at 5A than he did in other apartments - the same applies to the cars.    As we know from the videos - sniffer dogs do not necessarily go straight to an 'object/area by any means - and so unless the same amount of time is given to each search  to give the dogs the same chance at each location - we do not know if Eddie would have alerted in other places.  The chances of there being nothing 'detectable'  i.e. blood for example,  being deposited in any other apartment or in any other car during the preceding years are too minute to be realistic IMO.

Anyway - been there done that - and I don't intend to get bogged down in yet another 'dog' saga which has already been done to death a trillion times.

You have your opinion - I have mine.  We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Victoria]

That is true, it is also true that Eddie spent longer at 5A than he did in other apartments - the same applies to the cars.    As we know from the videos - sniffer dogs do not necessarily go straight to an 'object/area by any means - and so unless the same amount of time is given to each search  to give the dogs the same chance at each location - we do not know if Eddie would have alerted in other places.  The chances of there being nothing 'detectable'  i.e. blood for example,  being deposited in any other apartment or in any other car during the preceding years are too minute to be realistic IMO.

Anyway - been there done that - and I don't intend to get bogged down in yet another 'dog' saga which has already been done to death a trillion times.

You have your opinion - I have mine.  We will have to agree to disagree.

Agreed. The only thing worth noting with respect to those dog searches is that they found sweet FA of any forensic interest. The reason they barked is anyone's guess, but the fact is there was nothing there that could corroborate a genuine alert.

Seven years later, people still don't seem to understand this, but then there are a lot of things some people seem incapable of understanding and ultimately that's their problem.

[icabodcrane]

It is rather simple -
The dogs didn't alert in the apartments of the other members of the Tapas group - none of the children of the other Tapas members are missing.
The dogs did alert in the McCann's apartment - one of their children is missing.

It really is that simple

People struggle to come up with all sorts of flakey explanations whilst determindely avoiding the obvious one

A dog,  who is trained to bark when he  picks up the scent of death,  barked in the apartment from which a child disappeared, never to be seen again

[Benice]

It really is that simple

People struggle to come up with all sorts of flakey explanations whilst determindely avoiding the obvious one

A dog,  who is trained to bark when he  picks up the scent of death,  barked in the apartment from which a child disappeared, never to be seen again

So what Martin Grime tells us is flakey?  He is the expert who gave various reasons unrelated to a dead body as to why Eddie would bark.  If some people want to ignore them because they don't suit what they want to believe - that is not my problem.  A court would take a different view.

Must go out now.

[icabodcrane]

So what Martin Grime tells us is flakey?  He is the expert who gave various reasons unrelated to a dead body as to why Eddie would bark.  If some people want to ignore them because they don't suit what they want to believe - that is not my problem.  A court would take a different view.

Must go out now.

Benice,  you,  and others,  can come up with as many  'explanations'  as you like, but the fact is I cannot get beyond that cadaver dog throwing his head back and barking with such certainty in the apartment where a little girl was last seen alive

That's the thing, you see  ...  that dog didn't know that a child had disappeared.  He barked because he detected a scent he was trained to pick up,  and he picked it up there,  there   in the  apartment  she disappeared from

[misty]

In the absence of Eddie & Keela, what evidence would there have been to suggest that Madeleine died in that apartment?

[Wonderfulspam]

In the absence of Eddie & Keela, what evidence would there have been to suggest that Madeleine died in that apartment?

A burglar with a burgundy T-shirt & a very unhealthy interest in british girls, apparently.

[ferryman]

Benice,  you,  and others,  can come up with as many  'explanations'  as you like, but the fact is I cannot get beyond that cadaver dog throwing his head back and barking with such certainty in the apartment where a little girl was last seen alive

That's the thing, you see  ...  that dog didn't know that a child had disappeared.  He barked because he detected a scent he was trained to pick up,  and he picked it up there,  there   in the  apartment  she disappeared from

He barked to please his owner -- after repeated direction and re-direction (and an interminable length of time) reinforced his instinct that that is what was required.

Oh, and he barked to get his toy back that had been hidden in the cupboard ...

[Wonderfulspam]

He barked to please his owner -- after repeated direction and re-direction (and an interminable length of time) reinforced his instinct that that is what was required.

Oh, and he barked to get his toy back that had been hidden in the cupboard ...

And he barked at the dead pig that was buried under the bush in the back garden.

[ferryman]

And he barked at the dead pig that was buried under the bush in the back garden.

The garden had recently been fertilised, and there is a pig-based fertiliser ...