Madeleine McCann. Sniffer dogs brought in to help with scrubland dig.

[Benice]

Yes I know super dog Eddie found the body aswell 

Constable John Ellis, said he realised the dog operated by his team-mate Martin Grime, a dog called "Eddie", a Springer Spaniel, had found something, because of his barking.

 He added he continued searching with his dog "Frankie" a Border Collie, and that when he approached Constable Grime`s position, "there was a distinct smell of decay".  

Constable Grime had told the court that as he searched the hedgerows and riverbank "Eddie" jumped into the stream and at one stage was being swept away by the current.

 However, the dog managed to swim back up and jumped unto a pile of stones on the further bank and started barking.

 "I immediately noted that he had found something and I made my way to the bank and saw what he had found," said Constable Grime.

If the smell was so strong that a human couldn't miss it - it would be a miracle if a sniffer dog had.  That is hardly an example which indicates the superlative skills of any sniffer dog.

[pathfinder73]

If the smell was so strong that a human couldn't miss it - it would be a miracle if a sniffer dog had.  That is hardly an example which indicates the superlative skills of any sniffer dog.

Eddie risked his life jumping in the river like the doggie version of Indiana Jones to locate the body. Maybe they'll do a movie version of his life one day - the super dog that busted the ones who thought they'd got away with it

[VIXTE]

Eddie risked his life jumping in the river like the doggie version of Indiana Jones to locate the body. Maybe they'll do a movie version of his life one day - the super dog that busted the ones who thought they'd got away with it

Sure. If you all continue living like some 'Eddie cult' they might even do it sooner 

[John]

Dedicated - Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog Eddie (deceased)

[pegasus]

Does everyone agree, that in the areas searched by Tito and Muzzy, there is certainly no body ?

[gilet]

Those dogs were very well paid for being excellent at their job. They didn't find live humans or dead pigs. They solved cases of missing people. You can't prove that the dogs were wrong and now they're looking for a body they believe the dogs were correct.

An alternative interpretation is that the recent searches have made it slightly less likely that the original dog alerts were meaningful. 

The Met police do not "believe the dogs were correct". They believe that the original dogs may have been correct. You seem to have a problem understanding the difference between the Met Police stating that Madeleine may have died and your fixed idea that she did die.

The recent searches were a method of ruling out one of the potential locations for a body that the original dogs might have been alerting to.

Nothing about the recent searches in any way backs up the original dog alerts.

As I said, if anything, they have made them very slightly less likely to have been accurate.

[pathfinder73]

You still don't get it. Grime could tell the dog's behaviour changed as soon as he went inside 5A and his behaviour changed when he passed the hire car.

[gilet]

You still don't get it. Grime could tell the dog's behaviour changed as soon as he went inside 5A and his behaviour changed when he passed the hire car.

So much that he had to be called back to the McCanns car over and over while apparently finding the wall more interesting.

So much that he played with the cuddle cat rather than alert to it and only alerted at the far end of the counter in the kitchen area when the toy was hidden by Grime in the cupboard.

Such scientifically imprecise work is so open to question that it is, as Grime himself tells us, only of evidential value when backed up by forensics.



Our opinions clearly differ.

[pegasus]

If Eddie checks a piece of ground and does not signal, we know for certain nothing is there.
If Tito and Muzzy check a piece of ground, and do not signal, we know for certain nothing is there.
This information given by the dog, by not alerting, is extremely valuable, for it can rule out a piece of ground.
Another example is Carla's valuable work in a current ongoing UK case - checked two houses and gardens and a car. She did not alert. Very valuable, because it tells Yorkshire police : definitely there was never anything detectable in those houses gardens and car.

[pegasus]

...You don't even know where they were  8-)(--) ...

But you know where those clothes were - in the living area - did you not read the label on the box?

[pathfinder73]

But you know where those clothes were - in the living area - did you not read the label on the box?

They may have already been packed before Eddie went in? If they're in the living room then you can provide evidence of that fact? I'll await your screenshot.

[Alfred R Jones]

If Eddie checks a piece of ground and does not signal, we know for certain nothing is there.
If Tito and Muzzy check a piece of ground, and do not signal, we know for certain nothing is there.
This information given by the dog, by not alerting, is extremely valuable, for it can rule out a piece of ground.
Another example is Carla's valuable work in a current ongoing UK case - checked two houses and gardens and a car. She did not alert. Very valuable, because it tells Yorkshire police : definitely there was never anything detectable in those houses gardens and car.

Not quite.  A body could have been there, just not long enough to leave a scent detectable by the dog.

[pegasus]

Not quite.  A body could have been there, just not long enough to leave a scent detectable by the dog.

Good point. So, rephrasing -
Tito and Muzzy tell us that nothing with PMI of over 150 minutes was in the ground they searched without alerting.
Eddie tells us that nothing with PMI of over 150 minutes was in the ground he searched without alerting
(or possibly replace 150 with 85, source = CSST experiment)

[Alfred R Jones]

And what time frame is that exactly ?
Minutes, hours, days ?
You tell us Alfie !

I don't know exactly, I do know however that it allegedly takes around 90 minutes from the point of death before enough scent or whatever it is is detectable by a dog.  If a body lay in a house for 5 minutes 10 years ago will a dog still be able to detect it?  Who knows?

[Alfred R Jones]

And would atmospheric conditions affect the length of time do you think ?

I should think so, but really you should be asking an expert.  There's one on this forum and also Mr Grime is going to answer all our questions about the dogs, one day soon apparently.