Madeleine's last movements tracked by the GNR sniffer dogs.

[pegasus]

In this case the dogs would go to Payne's apartment and find Fiona.

Yes what you say makes sense.

BTW at about 11pm on May 4th when the dog's first response (starting outside) was "headed to the door" (of 5A), a straight interpretation is: the target is inside the apartment at this time.

[misty]

In this case the dogs would go to Payne's apartment and find Fiona.

The dogs were not permitted to enter any of the apartments, so the person to whom the scent belonged may or may not have been in any of the apartments indicated at said time.
It was just one suggestion, Fiona having been in 5a & 5H, & in all probability a visitor to 4G. The same could be said of the 4 McCanns, and anyone else who had access to 5a on the 4th & also visited 5H & 4G between 4th & 8th. However, that must rule out a deceased Madeleine, as the cadaver dogs did not indicate in 5H & 4G.
The interesting factor is the dogs following the same ground-level route on the 2nd expedition, some 5 days after Madeleine had disappeared & a multitude of people had walked the route. Would this indicate a fresh scent trail deposited by an individual who only frequented the area in question during 4-8th May, or would any residual scent specifically from 4th May still be evident?

[VIXTE]

Yes what you say makes sense.

BTW at about 11pm on May 4th when the dog's first response (starting outside) was "headed to the door" (of 5A), a straight interpretation is: the target is inside the apartment at this time.

And they did not open the door? The dog did not insist on his find?
IMO what you are saying is a big big speculation.
1.First you speculate that the scent on the source given to the dogs is not Madeleine's.
2. Second you speculate it is Fiona's scent on the source given to the dogs.
3. Third you speculate that the dogs did find Fiona Payne but she did not open the door although she was inside to let the dogs find her.
After all of these speculations which you take as FACTS. why then the dogs went to the car park?

This is how the internet myths are made up. People start believing that these are facts. Madeleine's scent absent from the towel is not a fact. We don't even know if this is some kind of a misunderstanding. Maybe the towel is actually Madeleine's blanket. How do YOU know it is not?
I can speculate it is. Same as you speculated  these are two different things.

[VIXTE]

Would this indicate a fresh scent trail deposited by an individual who only frequented the area in question during 4-8th May, or would any residual scent specifically from 4th May still be evident?

And if this individual is Madeleine and this was her last and freshest scent? This is not possible?

[sadie]

What I am saying is that, in my opinion, the scent on the towel did not come from Madeleine. It most probably came from either another member of the McCann family, as the first s&r dog deployed late on 4th May almost immediately headed to block 4, so there was clearly a good scent trail.  We know that the McCanns relocated to 4G sometime on 4th May. They had also been in 5H on the night of the 3rd for a while.
 The towel could also have been used by Fiona Payne, as she remained with Kate in 5a after Madeleine was found missing for quite a while - and may well have used the bathroom during her time there. Fiona was also still in Luz on 8th May.
It would be interesting to know where the various witnesses were dropped off after returning from their interviews at the police station on the 4th - that may explain the dogs' tracking ceasing in the car park opposite. (just a theory)
*Snip
- He remembers that on the 4th of May of the current year, around 23H00, they attempted to tentatively identify and thus reconstruct the path taken by the missing minor. They gave the dogs a Turkish bath towel which was supposedly used by the child in question. This operation was realised by two different dogs.
- That after having given the sniffer dog the towel and next to the residence of the missing girl, more specifically, next to apartment block 5A and 5, the first sniffer dog headed toward the door of that apartment. Immediately afterward, he headed in the direction of block 4, returned around block 5, and came down a road that exists between this block and the leisure area (pools, restaurants, etc).

A very sensible post Misty.  Several very good points.

As you say the dog could easily have been interested in the scent of one of the adults.  I had only thought of the sweaty smell of the abductors, but it could also be any of the people who might have handled it., family or friends, or even police.

If it was Madeleines scent that was being followed then she certainly exited via the front door according to the info in your last paragraph.  Forget the window, forget the patio door.

[VIXTE]

If the scent wasn't Madeleine's what exactly the dogs would do?

[pegasus]

And they did not open the door? The dog did not insist on his find?
IMO what you are saying is a big big speculation.
1.First you speculate that the scent on the source given to the dogs is not Madeleine's.
2. Second you speculate it is Fiona's scent on the source given to the dogs.
3. Third you speculate that the dogs did find Fiona Payne but she did not open the door although she was inside to let the dogs find her.
After all of these speculations which you take as FACTS. why then the dogs went to the car park?

This is how the internet myths are made up. People start believing that these are facts. Madeleine's scent absent from the towel is not a fact. We don't even know if this is some kind of a misunderstanding. Maybe the towel is actually Madeleine's blanket. How do YOU know it is not?
I can speculate it is. Same as you speculated  these are two different things.

Just to make it clear, they are speculations, never did I state them as facts. Someone else brought up the FP speculation, the value I saw in it was simply that it considered the general possibility that a towel might be used by someone after the child did. I am as lost as most on these GNR dog trails - I do not understand them.

[pegasus]

And they did not open the door?....

The handler at about 11pm on the 4th would be working from the strong assumption that the child was not at that time (11pm 4th) in the apartment. I think that if a GNR dog outside did go first to the front door, this would be dismissed by the handler like this "oh yes fine very good dog but we already know she had been in there earlier" and so I don't think the handler would open that door and let the dog in. But I emphasise this all pure speculation at best.

[misty]

If it was Madeleines scent that was being followed then she certainly exited via the front door according to the info in your last paragraph.  Forget the window, forget the patio door.

That is an excellent point, assuming the scent was Madeleine's, which would also open the door to a plethora of questions about the various locations the cadaver odour was detected due to the length of time a body has to decompose enough to contaminate.
However, I believe that the indications by Rex & Zarus at 4G specifically pretty much rule out the scent being Madeleine's.

[VIXTE]

That is an excellent point, assuming the scent was Madeleine's, which would also open the door to a plethora of questions about the various locations the cadaver odour was detected due to the length of time a body has to decompose enough to contaminate.
However, I believe that the indications by Rex & Zarus at 4G specifically pretty much rule out the scent being Madeleine's.
[/quote

So you believe the cadaver scent which had no scientific backing was Madeleine's but the Madeleine's towel  did not carry her scent. Why is this?
Do you know where this Madeleine's towel was kept?Do we know it was accessible to others to touch and leave scent?

[misty]

[/quote

So you believe the cadaver scent which had no scientific backing was Madeleine's but the Madeleine's towel  did not carry her scent. Why is this?
Do you know where this Madeleine's towel was kept?Do we know it was accessible to others to touch and leave scent?

No. I believe that the towel was not directly specific to Madeleine. There were 3 children who were reportedly bathed & dried in 5a on the evening of the 3rd, Kate took a shower & Gerry had a bath. Unless the towels in the apartment were all patterned or coloured differently to one another, I do not see how anyone could have been 100% sure who used which towel.
 AFAIK, Kate has never mentioned giving the Portuguese police a towel for the dogs to use for scenting and the GNR final report is non-specific about who gave the towel to the handlers.
Had the s&r dogs actually used an item of Madeleine's clothing, this speculation would not be happening. The question has to be asked, in the light of the GNR final report stating Madeleine's clothes WERE used - was this just shoddy policing or a more deliberate attempt to deflect attention?

[VIXTE]

No. I believe that the towel was not directly specific to Madeleine. There were 3 children who were reportedly bathed & dried in 5a on the evening of the 3rd, Kate took a shower & Gerry had a bath. Unless the towels in the apartment were all patterned or coloured differently to one another, I do not see how anyone could have been 100% sure who used which towel.
 AFAIK, Kate has never mentioned giving the Portuguese police a towel for the dogs to use for scenting and the GNR final report is non-specific about who gave the towel to the handlers.
Had the s&r dogs actually used an item of Madeleine's clothing, this speculation would not be happening. The question has to be asked, in the light of the GNR final report stating Madeleine's clothes WERE used - was this just shoddy policing or a more deliberate attempt to deflect attention?

I think it was reported that the dogs were given several pieces of Madeleine's clothes to sniff and they (the dogs) chose these items which were picked for this operation. I remember this being reported in the first days.

[VIXTE]

I think I've solved the towel - blanket mystery!

Antonio Freitas Silva
 
Date: 2007.05.09
 
Location: DIC Portimao
Occupation: 1st Sergeant GNR
Location: GNR-Queluz
 
The deponent states that:
 
• He comes to the process in the role of Chief of the GNR Search and Rescue Team. He coordinated all the work carried out by the two sniffer dogs in the Luz zone and the immediate areas relating to the disappearance of the English minor Madeleine McCann from the Ocean Club.
 
• He remembers that on the 4th of May of the current year, around 23h00, they attempted to tentatively identify and thus reconstruct the path taken by the missing minor. They gave the dogs a Turkish bath towel which was supposedly used by the child in question. This operation was realised by two different dogs.

Google search for turkish bath towel
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=turkish+bath+towel&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=_i2qU9B34tDsBtfpgYgE&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1024&bih=560

It gives you a blanket. Turkish bath towel is a blanket!
http://www.pinterest.com/sssarahjones/turkish-bath-towel/

[pegasus]

I think I've solved the towel - blanket mystery!
Google search for turkish bath towel ... It gives you a blanket. ...

Very humorous Vixte, however you have made a valuable suggestion: doing image searches.
Try an image search for "toalha turca"
(yes include the quotes)
Now this is very interesting
Can we deduce from the results, that the adjective "turca", when used to describe a "toalha", is simply a description of the fabric type, (and not a description of colour or design)?
Notice how some of the search finds are white with no pattern?
And they check out if you follow the links - white towels described as "turca"
So could the "turkish bath towel" used by Fernandes actually be one of the several large white towels we see in PJ photos of the apartment?

[misty]

I think I've solved the towel - blanket mystery!

Google search for turkish bath towel
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=turkish+bath+towel&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=_i2qU9B34tDsBtfpgYgE&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1024&bih=560

It gives you a blanket. Turkish bath towel is a blanket!
http://www.pinterest.com/sssarahjones/turkish-bath-towel/

Sorry, but I don't see how you can confuse a plain pink blanket with an Aztec towel. Can you provide a link to a qstatement  which proves Kate or Gerry gave the PJ a pink aztec towel used only by Madeleine?