Author Topic: So what's next in the libel trial saga?  (Read 314575 times)

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Lyall

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1365 on: February 05, 2015, 02:18:24 PM »
If the McCanns were not able to EMPIRICALLY PROVE the extent of damage caused, then the case against Amaral may fail.

A sad day for Portugal, however, if it's considered fair to accuse people of criminal acts, subsequently echoed and amplified by others, particularly when the people concerned have never even been arrested, let alone charged.

In the Portuguese trials against various PJ officers, they were considered innocent until the results of the final appeals (and some even appear to have maintained their jobs in the PJ).

Whatever the outcome.... it will not mean that everything that Amaral has ever spouted was the "truth", which is no doubt how some will interpret it, conveniently substituting the putative likely results of UK libel laws (requiring proof of allegations) for PT proof of damage ones.

If the case against Amaral is dismissed, I wouldn't put any bets that accusing people based on "interpretation" of "misunderstandings" of evidence is likely to stop the floodgate of pent-up vitriol, waiting for a verdict to be announced so as to be expressed in mainstream media as "fact".

Apples and oranges. And more than a few bananas. Plus a few squirts of sour citrus fruits.

I think they probably did hope in 2009 that action could be taken in London instead, where clearly it would have been a different outcome (especially with the dvd).

But all through the years people have forgotten/overlooked he isn't the only defendant in Lisbon.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1366 on: February 05, 2015, 02:34:58 PM »
If the McCanns were not able to EMPIRICALLY PROVE the extent of damage caused, then the case against Amaral may fail.

Do you think they proved it?

Offline Carana

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1367 on: February 05, 2015, 04:24:38 PM »
Do you think they proved it?

Not in terms of the extent, but whether the principle is taken into account or not.

A rather nebulous concept appears to be this "common knowledge" principle, which doesn't require empirical proof (e.g., you aren't required to prove that Wednesday is the day after Tuesday).

Whether that extends to the concept that being accused of criminal acts by a former supposed "expert" (who was clearly out of his depth) in the context of a still-missing child, in a case in which your suspect status had been lifted and thus may have gained hope concerning the renewed pursuit of the search, is more likely to increase your suffering, decrease it or cancel it out remains to be seen.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1368 on: February 05, 2015, 05:20:55 PM »
Not in terms of the extent, but whether the principle is taken into account or not.

A rather nebulous concept appears to be this "common knowledge" principle, which doesn't require empirical proof (e.g., you aren't required to prove that Wednesday is the day after Tuesday).

Whether that extends to the concept that being accused of criminal acts by a former supposed "expert" (who was clearly out of his depth) in the context of a still-missing child, in a case in which your suspect status had been lifted and thus may have gained hope concerning the renewed pursuit of the search, is more likely to increase your suffering, decrease it or cancel it out remains to be seen.

In the UK we're accustomed to the idea that you can't say certain things in print (or video), and probably we're so accustomed it's very odd to us that it's not the same in other countries. It's not the same in the US either. In the US it's likely his book would still be being sold in shops (assuming there's the demand to make it worthwhile for the publisher) - they don't ban books.

Different with the dvd of course. In an equivalent situation, I don't think that would ever have been shown on mainstream US television (books may not be banned, but films can effectively be denied exposure). But there would have been other documentaries with different scripts shown, far more bold than any UK ones have been.

In the UK we have no equivalent of interim police reports, and any internal documentation is never published here anyway (we've no FOI laws like US states) - GA probably couldn't have published his book without that (or it would have had to be self-published).

Do we know why the McCanns never tried to prevent broadcast of the documentary? Or did they, but the effort failed?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 05:34:23 PM by Lyall »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1369 on: February 05, 2015, 09:53:05 PM »
Well Dr Amaral did not libel Madeleine and the judge said it was not proven "The Book" had impeded the search.
Take 450 grand out of the equation?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:27:13 PM by John »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1370 on: February 05, 2015, 10:07:47 PM »
Well Dr Amaral did not libel Madeleine and the judge said it was not proven "The Book" had impeded the search.
Take 450 grand out of the equation?

That's right...as amaral has said...the mccanns have not been able to prove all their points

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1371 on: February 05, 2015, 10:59:34 PM »
That's right...as amaral has said...the mccanns have not been able to prove all their points

Have they proven any that will actually mean damages have to be paid ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1372 on: February 05, 2015, 11:07:34 PM »
Have they proven any that will actually mean damages have to be paid ?

I would say yes

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1373 on: February 05, 2015, 11:08:53 PM »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1374 on: February 05, 2015, 11:12:43 PM »
The ruling that the book caused anxiety etc...

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1375 on: February 05, 2015, 11:15:10 PM »
The ruling that the book caused anxiety etc...

But the judge qualified that by saying the anxiety/depression existed before the book was published so the book didn't cause it.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1376 on: February 05, 2015, 11:17:04 PM »
But the judge qualified that by saying the anxiety/depression existed before the book was published so the book didn't cause it.
So when the judge said proven what she actually meant was not proven?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1377 on: February 05, 2015, 11:18:47 PM »
But the judge qualified that by saying the anxiety/depression existed before the book was published so the book didn't cause it.


Damages will be reduced because the feelings were already present...the book made them worse
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:46:07 PM by John »

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1378 on: February 05, 2015, 11:22:01 PM »
So when the judge said proven what she actually meant was not proven?

Is that what I said ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #1379 on: February 05, 2015, 11:24:59 PM »
We do not know the source of the published ruling and we don't know how accurate the translation is.....what we do know is that there is no celebration by amaral...he says the judgement MAY be favourable...what exactly does that mean..we will know soon