Author Topic: So what's next in the libel trial saga?  (Read 330632 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #855 on: December 16, 2014, 10:57:02 PM »
I have stated what I believe and why I believe it.

I've quoted the appeals court ruling. I've quoted the testimonies of the McCann's witnesses.

I've yet to hear of any sensible rebuttal.

Whys that I wonder?

You've yet to understand any sensible rebuttal, which is quite different.

Offline Anna

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #856 on: December 16, 2014, 10:58:34 PM »
Can we have her reply please?  I don't see why you think this was a trap - there is a huge difference between not fearing being made arguidos when you know you are innocent and are confident that the legal process will arrive at the same conclusion and the feelings of anger, despair, frustration you would feel about a book read by thousands that claimed to tell the truth about you but which in reality was a pack of lies, exploiting your miising child and written for a profit.

2) Defence lawyers.

a) TVI lawyers' questions

TVI - You said that "everybody in Portugal believes the book". What makes you think this?
SH - says that in PDL some people believe Kate and Gerald, but outside they don't.

TVI - Do you suppose so? Have you any objective basis to think so?
SH - says she has knows a Portuguese nurse, in the hospital where she works in Canada, who believes what the book says.

TVI - Do you know if this book and the documentary were broadcast at the same moment?
SH - says when one and the other were launched.

TVI - Are the thesis identical?
SH - notes that in the documentary the actors representing Kate and Gerald were depicted drinking a lot, but the underlying theories are similar. She adds one must pay for the book whereas the access to the documentary is free.

TVI - Have you seen "Madeleine was here"?
SH - did, as many people.

TVI - Then why should one believe more a documentary than the other?
SH - argues the Amaral documentary had more audience.

TVI - Why?
SH - doesn't know. She hasn't watched all the programs.

TVI - Then why do you think that one is more watched than the other?
The judge overrules : the issue is "what kind of effect?"

b) Valentim de Carvalho (DVD production/distribution) lawyer's questions

VC - You don't know if Madeleine died. Your conviction is she's alive. The idea that something happened to her other than abduction is also a possibility. Do you think the McCanns are angry because such a theory exists that is different from theirs?
SH - hesitates, then says she doesn't think so, refers to the loss of hope.
VC – Have you seen the TVI documentary, have you read the final conclusion?
The judge overrules.

c) Guerra & Paz's lawyer's questions

GP - first asks if Susan Hubbard knows Gonçalo Amaral and when she met the McCanns for the first time.
SH - answers she once saw Gonçalo Amaral somewhere in PDL and met the McCanns a few days after her arrival in PDL (3 days after Madeleine disappeared).

GP - How did the couple react when they were made arguidos?
SH - says the McCanns didn't fear the arguido status because they knew they were innocent.

GP - We could then expect the same reaction after the book was published. You, as a close friend who saw them almost every day, must know better than anyone. How did they react when they were made arguidos?
SH - answers they wanted to protect the twins and didn't know what to do. They thought of taking them to Spain. They reacted with sadness (Gerry McCann with anger) because the police wouldn't be looking for their daughter.

GP - Did the Fund and the private investigators go on searching for Madeleine?
SH - answers yes.

GP - And after the book was published?
SH - answers yes.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #857 on: December 16, 2014, 11:00:09 PM »
They didn't though did they?

Doesn't matter though does it. The Arguido status was so worrying for them that they actually contemplated doing a runner.

Then wrote about it.

Blows a pretty big hole in their witnesses statements that it didn't bother them and they were expecting it.

It begs the question that if they were expecting to be made Arguidos and it was normal procedure why would you feel the need to even contemplate a midnight flit?

Offline Eleanor

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #858 on: December 16, 2014, 11:01:38 PM »
If a tenth of what you believe was true amaral would be cock a hoop...yet you can see he is a broken man... I am wondering how you are going to explain how you got everything so wrong once the verdict comes out...it will be something to look forward to

Not for me, it won't.  The winning will be enough.  But then I will manage even if they lose.  I will still believe that they did no harm to Madeleine.

I don't care all that much about Amaral one way or the other.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #859 on: December 16, 2014, 11:02:21 PM »
Let's not forget Susan Hubbards abject humiliation and headlong fall into a giant bear trap:

Defence Lawyer: How did the couple react when they were made arguidos?

Susan Hubbard: The McCanns didn't fear the arguido status because they knew they were innocent.

Defence Lawyer:  Then we could  expect the same reaction after the book was published

Oops!! She fell for that one!
I have googled and found this http://www.mccannfiles.com/id454.html. Can you point out where the defence lawyer says what you have quoted please.

Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #860 on: December 16, 2014, 11:02:45 PM »
2) Defence lawyers.

a) TVI lawyers' questions

TVI - You said that "everybody in Portugal believes the book". What makes you think this?
SH - says that in PDL some people believe Kate and Gerald, but outside they don't.

TVI - Do you suppose so? Have you any objective basis to think so?
SH - says she has knows a Portuguese nurse, in the hospital where she works in Canada, who believes what the book says.

TVI - Do you know if this book and the documentary were broadcast at the same moment?
SH - says when one and the other were launched.

TVI - Are the thesis identical?
SH - notes that in the documentary the actors representing Kate and Gerald were depicted drinking a lot, but the underlying theories are similar. She adds one must pay for the book whereas the access to the documentary is free.

TVI - Have you seen "Madeleine was here"?
SH - did, as many people.

TVI - Then why should one believe more a documentary than the other?
SH - argues the Amaral documentary had more audience.

TVI - Why?
SH - doesn't know. She hasn't watched all the programs.

TVI - Then why do you think that one is more watched than the other?
The judge overrules : the issue is "what kind of effect?"

b) Valentim de Carvalho (DVD production/distribution) lawyer's questions

VC - You don't know if Madeleine died. Your conviction is she's alive. The idea that something happened to her other than abduction is also a possibility. Do you think the McCanns are angry because such a theory exists that is different from theirs?
SH - hesitates, then says she doesn't think so, refers to the loss of hope.
VC – Have you seen the TVI documentary, have you read the final conclusion?
The judge overrules.

c) Guerra & Paz's lawyer's questions

GP - first asks if Susan Hubbard knows Gonçalo Amaral and when she met the McCanns for the first time.
SH - answers she once saw Gonçalo Amaral somewhere in PDL and met the McCanns a few days after her arrival in PDL (3 days after Madeleine disappeared).

GP - How did the couple react when they were made arguidos?
SH - says the McCanns didn't fear the arguido status because they knew they were innocent.

GP - We could then expect the same reaction after the book was published. You, as a close friend who saw them almost every day, must know better than anyone. How did they react when they were made arguidos?
SH - answers they wanted to protect the twins and didn't know what to do. They thought of taking them to Spain. They reacted with sadness (Gerry McCann with anger) because the police wouldn't be looking for their daughter.

GP - Did the Fund and the private investigators go on searching for Madeleine?
SH - answers yes.

GP - And after the book was published?
SH - answers yes.

Thanks for this - see my post above about the midnight flit:

GP - How did the couple react when they were made arguidos?
SH - says the McCanns didn't fear the arguido status because they knew they were innocent.

So no fear but contemplating a  dash for the Spanish border?

So who's not telling the truth?

Susan or Kate?

Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #861 on: December 16, 2014, 11:04:12 PM »
I have googled and found this http://www.mccannfiles.com/id454.html. Can you point out where the defence lawyer says what you have quoted please.

It's in your post

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #862 on: December 16, 2014, 11:04:49 PM »
Not for me, it won't.  The winning will be enough.  But then I will manage even if they lose.  I will still believe that they did no harm to Madeleine.

I don't care all that much about Amaral one way or the other.

I look forward to several posters on here being proven wrong when the result of the libel trial is known....purely because it will show how poor their judgement is....
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 06:51:55 AM by John »

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #863 on: December 16, 2014, 11:07:17 PM »
Doesn't matter though does it. The Arguido status was so worrying for them that they actually contemplated doing a runner.

Then wrote about it.

Blows a pretty big hole in their witnesses statements that it didn't bother them and they were expecting it.

It begs the question that if they were expecting to be made Arguidos and it was normal procedure why would you feel the need to even contemplate a midnight flit?
Of course being made an arguido would worry them and yes I'm sure they were fearful - but they did not run, they faced their fear and they came through it, arguido status lifted.  I think it was remarkably candid of Kate to describe how they felt about it, and it is possible to experience a change in emotions over the course of a few hours and days - it's part of being human.

Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #864 on: December 16, 2014, 11:08:20 PM »
Of course being made an arguido would worry them and yes I'm sure they were fearful - but they did not run, they faced their fear and they came through it, arguido status lifted.  I think it was remarkably candid of Kate to describe how they felt about it, and it is possible to experience a change in emotions over the course of a few hours and days - it's part of being human.

But their witnesses said precisely the opposite about the Arguido status.

Why is that?

Offline Eleanor

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #865 on: December 16, 2014, 11:11:27 PM »
I look forward to several posters on here being proven wrong when the result of the libel trial is known....purely because it will show how poor their judgement is....

Apart from their right to express an opinion, I am not all that interested in their judgment.  But I might be interested in how they react if they are proven to be wrong.

I just hope that there won't be too much gloating going on.

Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #866 on: December 16, 2014, 11:12:11 PM »
You've yet to understand any sensible rebuttal, which is quite different.

No you've produced the square root of b....r all apart from stating you are right and those imbecile judges are wrong.

You've produced nothing of substance.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #867 on: December 16, 2014, 11:12:54 PM »
Thanks for this - see my post above about the midnight flit:

GP - How did the couple react when they were made arguidos?
SH - says the McCanns didn't fear the arguido status because they knew they were innocent.

So no fear but contemplating a  dash for the Spanish border?

So who's not telling the truth?

Susan or Kate?
Did Kate say fear was their reason for contemplating leaving for Spain?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #868 on: December 16, 2014, 11:14:22 PM »
But their witnesses said precisely the opposite about the Arguido status.

Why is that?
You'd have to ask them.  There's no point speculating but if I had to I would say it's because that was their opinion.

Offline Anna

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #869 on: December 16, 2014, 11:15:10 PM »
Thanks for this - see my post above about the midnight flit:

GP - How did the couple react when they were made arguidos?
SH - says the McCanns didn't fear the arguido status because they knew they were innocent.

So no fear but contemplating a  dash for the Spanish border?

So who's not telling the truth?

Susan or Kate?

Kate did say that they had considered (In a moment of weakness) getting in the car and driving over the border.
I find that understandable in the circumstances. They were in a foreign country with limited support and had two babies to tend. If it were I, I would be out of there, pronto.
 It is no secret that they considered this and therefore not news to any of us. Its even in Kate's book, I believe.
Maybe it was at a later date that Kate discussed it with SH.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato