So what's next in the libel trial saga?

[ferryman]

Merely because the dogs alerts weren't corroborated, doesn't mean they didn't indicate a body.

AND IF SHE DID DIE IN THE APARTMENT.......................

In answer to the second part of your question, if an intruder killed Madeleine inside the apartment and took her body with him, there would be no odour detectable by the dog, because the PMI would be too short.

[pathfinder73]

Dog alerts are uncorroborated and the deployment of the dogs was incompetent.

Mark Harrison's conclusion was that if death had occurred it was most likely that Madeleine's body had been jettisoned into the sea.

There are fully audited accounts for the fund that prove it is above-board.

"In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's." (Mark Harrison)

Show me where Grime tells Eddie to bark at the wardrobe? First alert!

[ferryman]

"In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's." (Mark Harrison)

Show me where Grime tells Eddie to bark at the wardrobe? First alert!

Mark Harrison, before the dog inspections.

After the dog inspections, Harrison said this:

On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.

Didn't even acknowledge UK input in either inspection at villa or gym.

Why is that, do you suppose?

ETA: routing that firmly back on topic, the only explanation of how the inspection at the gym came about is that in Amaral's book.

There is no corroboration of Amaral's explanation in the files, and Harrison turned his back on it when it occurred.

That should weigh against Amaral in the final reckoning when the judge comes to deliver her verdict.

[pathfinder73]

Mark Harrison, before the dog inspections.

So what? It is clear from his report if Eddie aka EVRD alerts it suggests a body was there and removed.

[stephen25000]

In answer to the second part of your question, if an intruder killed Madeleine inside the apartment and took her body with him, there would be no odour detectable by the dog, because the PMI would be too short.

So now you are an expert in forensics.

As you well know, it would depend on how long the body was there for an other variables.

[ferryman]

So now you are an expert in forensics.

As you well know, it would depend on how long the body was there for an other variables.

I freely admit that Harrison knows much more about it than me.

That's why he made the comments he did.

[ferryman]

So what? It is clear from his report if Eddie aka EVRD alerts it suggests a body was there and removed.

Why did Harrison turn his back on the inspection after he'd witnessed it?

And why did he (retrospectively) issue PJ personnel with translated instructions on how to conduct searches in buildings?

[Brietta]

They will win because amaral has quite clearly libelled them. They do not have to prove their innocence...as you can see...it is taken as the default situation...amaral has desperately been trying to justify his statements. The court has seen fit to seize all amarals assets...the book is no longer in print and amaral looks and talks like  abeaten man

Dr Amaral has been the darling of Portuguese chat shows, often being quoted and often being interviewed.

Is that still the case?

I have heard nothing of him since the sharing a coffin scheme he came up with. 

Has the good press he has enjoyed waned since the PJ and SY reopening of Madeleine's case and the subsequent opening of eyes in Portugal as a result?

The learned judge will of course make her ruling based on the evidence presented in court and from what I have read of the court proceedings I think she is nobody's fool. 

I think she will rule in favour of the Drs McCann but as far as they are concerned I don't think there is the same impetus or necessity for a legal ruling. 

They have achieved their purpose ... there is an official investigation taking place into what may have befallen Madeleine ... and in effect their names have been totally cleared by the PJ and SY who have suspects associated with each other but not with Madeleine's parents or their friends.

As a firm believer in the presumption of innocence I just wish certain people would lay off them and give some consideration of what emotions they must be experiencing as they wait for news of their daughter.

[Eleanor]

Dr Amaral has been the darling of Portuguese chat shows, often being quoted and often being interviewed.

Is that still the case?

I have heard nothing of him since the sharing a coffin scheme he came up with. 

Has the good press he has enjoyed waned since the PJ and SY reopening of Madeleine's case and the subsequent opening of eyes in Portugal as a result?

The learned judge will of course make her ruling based on the evidence presented in court and from what I have read of the court proceedings I think she is nobody's fool. 

I think she will rule in favour of the Drs McCann but as far as they are concerned I don't think there is the same impetus or necessity for a legal ruling. 

They have achieved their purpose ... there is an official investigation taking place into what may have befallen Madeleine ... and in effect their names have been totally cleared by the PJ and SY who have suspects associated with each other but not with Madeleine's parents or their friends.

As a firm believer in the presumption of innocence I just wish certain people would lay off them and give some consideration of what emotions they must be experiencing as they wait for news of their daughter.

That's it in a nutshell.

But this is a really good thread at the moment.  All sides aired.  Which is what we all want.

[jassi]

Dr Amaral has been the darling of Portuguese chat shows, often being quoted and often being interviewed.

Is that still the case?

I have heard nothing of him since the sharing a coffin scheme he came up with. 

Has the good press he has enjoyed waned since the PJ and SY reopening of Madeleine's case and the subsequent opening of eyes in Portugal as a result?

The learned judge will of course make her ruling based on the evidence presented in court and from what I have read of the court proceedings I think she is nobody's fool. 

I think she will rule in favour of the Drs McCann but as far as they are concerned I don't think there is the same impetus or necessity for a legal ruling. 

They have achieved their purpose ... there is an official investigation taking place into what may have befallen Madeleine ... and in effect their names have been totally cleared by the PJ and SY who have suspects associated with each other but not with Madeleine's parents or their friends.

As a firm believer in the presumption of innocence I just wish certain people would lay off them and give some consideration of what emotions they must be experiencing as they wait for news of their daughter.

Dream on. Nothing is finally sorted until someone has been charged and convicted for whatever crime has been committed

[Albertini]

I'll keep persevering until it goes in at your end and you accept the facts.

From the Judges:

Quote
The fact is that the judges were wrong.

It's as simple as that.

Why do you find that so hard to understand?

ETA: What sort of a country do you think Portugal would be if it were the case that falsely accusing a couple of killing their own daughter, disposing of a body and launching a fraudulent fund in their daughter's name did not amount to an infringement of the couple's rights?

Is it the sort of country you would like to live in?

Haha!! That's utterly priceless. Some random internet poster with (presumably) zero knowledge of Portuguese law has stated that senior appeal court judges were wrong and he's right!

Self importance of a magnitude rarely seen before on this or any McCann forum.

I mean really, have you heard yourself?

I repeat if they were so wrong why didn't the McCann's take the case to the European courts or have its findings trashed in this case?

As for me and most right minded people I'll go with the legal experts of the Portuguese courts.

[ferryman]

Dr Amaral has been the darling of Portuguese chat shows, often being quoted and often being interviewed.

Is that still the case?

I have heard nothing of him since the sharing a coffin scheme he came up with. 

Has the good press he has enjoyed waned since the PJ and SY reopening of Madeleine's case and the subsequent opening of eyes in Portugal as a result?

The learned judge will of course make her ruling based on the evidence presented in court and from what I have read of the court proceedings I think she is nobody's fool. 

I think she will rule in favour of the Drs McCann but as far as they are concerned I don't think there is the same impetus or necessity for a legal ruling. 

They have achieved their purpose ... there is an official investigation taking place into what may have befallen Madeleine ... and in effect their names have been totally cleared by the PJ and SY who have suspects associated with each other but not with Madeleine's parents or their friends.

As a firm believer in the presumption of innocence I just wish certain people would lay off them and give some consideration of what emotions they must be experiencing as they wait for news of their daughter.

Yes, good post.

And as to the constant harping about the need to "prove" damage, proof should be self-evident in the dual trauma of, first, losing a loved and cherished child, second, being falsely accused of causing her death and disposing of her body, third, in (then) being falsely accused in a book, in a film, and in myriad interviews.

Suppose Brenda Leyland had been asked, before her death, to prove damage.

Yet to be determined, I know, but if it turns out that she took her own life, that would be the proof writ large that she had suffered damage, one way or another ...

[ferryman]

Haha!! That's utterly priceless. Some random internet poster with (presumably) zero knowledge of Portuguese law has stated that senior appeal court judges were wrong and he's right!

Self importance of a magnitude rarely seen before on this or any McCann forum.

I mean really, have you heard yourself?

I repeat if they were so wrong why didn't the McCann's take the case to the European courts or have its findings trashed in this case?

As for me and most right minded people I'll go with the legal experts of the Portuguese courts.

Got it one.

I'm disappointed that you find the facts so funny, though.

[Albertini]

You need to sort your posting formatting out.

However I'm still in stitches here.

Why if they were wrong didn't little izzy, who you say knows her Portuguese legal onions, take it further or destroy its findings in this case?

You're funny!

ETA: It's you I find funny.

[Eleanor]

Haha!! That's utterly priceless. Some random internet poster with (presumably) zero knowledge of Portuguese law has stated that senior appeal court judges were wrong and he's right!

Self importance of a magnitude rarely seen before on this or any McCann forum.

I mean really, have you heard yourself?

I repeat if they were so wrong why didn't the McCann's take the case to the European courts or have its findings trashed in this case?

As for me and most right minded people I'll go with the legal experts of the Portuguese courts.

Judges are sometimes wrong.  In anyone's opinion.  Ask Mr. Bennett.

It takes a large number of years to get heard in The Court of Human Rights.

And from what I can see, even Portuguese Posters have trouble understanding Portuguese Law.  Who wouldn't?