Author Topic: So what's next in the libel trial saga?  (Read 330741 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #795 on: December 16, 2014, 08:22:31 PM »
The objective definition of libel is assertions presented as "fact" that (Portuguese law!) is proven untrue.

Amaral's book literally teems with examples and I gather from those who have seen it (I haven't)  the film is worse.

So the question at issue is what level of damages the McCanns will be awarded.

Probably less than those they seek.

Dreamland personified.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #796 on: December 16, 2014, 08:23:55 PM »
How many times do you need to be shown the wording of the judgement before you stop perpetuating this falsehood?

How can it be about what holds sway when the judges stated categorically  their rights weren't offended?

For heavens sake.

How many times to you need to be shown the patent and manifestly proven falsehoods and lies in Amaral's book that lower the McCanns' reputation and hinder the search for Madeleine by propagating the myth that Madeleine was proven dead before you will (finally) get the message ?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #797 on: December 16, 2014, 08:26:21 PM »
How many times do you need to be shown the wording of the judgement before you stop perpetuating this falsehood?

How can it be about what holds sway when the judges stated categorically  their rights weren't offended?

For heavens sake.

Perhaps you could tell us what the Portuguese word used in the judgement. Fundamental means basic... I don't see that protection from libel is a basic right. Certainly if I was libelled and reported it to the police I would get no help. Could you tell us what the judges meant by fundamental rights.


Can a book be banned even if it is libellous. Portugal has strong freedom of speech laws. Therefore libel gives the plaintif a right to damages...not to have the books burnt

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #798 on: December 16, 2014, 08:27:28 PM »
How many times to you need to be shown the patent and manifestly proven falsehoods and lies in Amaral's book that lower the McCanns' reputation and hinder the search for Madeleine by propagating the myth that Madeleine was proven dead before you will (finally) get the message ?

Manifest untruths ?

That's just pure rollocks until the nature of the crime is determined.

All your posts reveal is desperation, as you ease towards the waterfall.................

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #799 on: December 16, 2014, 08:29:27 PM »
How many times to you need to be shown the patent and manifestly proven falsehoods and lies in Amaral's book that lower the McCanns' reputation and hinder the search for Madeleine by propagating the myth that Madeleine was proven dead before you will (finally) get the message ?

When has the so called 'search' for Madeleine stopped ?

Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #800 on: December 16, 2014, 08:30:23 PM »
How many times to you need to be shown the patent and manifestly proven falsehoods and lies in Amaral's book that lower the McCanns' reputation and hinder the search for Madeleine by propagating the myth that Madeleine was proven dead before you will (finally) get the message ?

I'm not interested in what you think are falsehoods based on your laymans reading of the files and your own subsequent laymans interpretations of those files.

I'm interested in what the real legal people say to the real courts about those files.

And at every level those legitimate legal representitives Of the McCann's have failed to challenge the appeals court ruling.

Why do you think that is?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #801 on: December 16, 2014, 08:32:17 PM »
I'm not interested in what you think are falsehoods based on your laymans reading of the files and your own subsequent laymans interpretations of those files.

I'm interested in what the real legal people say to the real courts about those files.

And at every level those legitimate legal representitives Of the McCann's have failed to challenge the appeals court ruling.

Why do you think that is?

You seem to be inexplicably confusing fact and opinion ...

Offline Eleanor

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #802 on: December 16, 2014, 08:33:22 PM »
Really? I fail to see the insult there Eleanor.

Do you not accept a forum member in a different country to the trial should be able to proclaim that senior judges with many year of legal experience were wrong and he is right?

It does the forum no favours to allow such hokum to be be bandied about  as a statement of fact.

It opens the forum up to ridicule.

And actually when things are ok between the relevant sides it's probably the best forum for both sides to discuss the issues.

"A bit of a Wally."  "Your beloved McCann legal team."  Not the worst I have seen by any means.  But was there any need for that?

And don't think that you are the only one in my sight.  You are not the only one.  And  I am simply not having this any more, from any of you. 

It has just stood out for me in what is a good discussion.  And could very nearly have wrecked it.

And ultimately, I won't be bothered to Modify anyone's posts.  I shall just delete them if they contain insults.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #803 on: December 16, 2014, 08:35:05 PM »
Well now! Do we know the terms of the original writ? er no. Do we know that the terms of the writ were not changed subsequent to the Supreme Court judgement? er no.That is a shame because it may give us a clue what it is really about.
As I recall the part of the writ published in the Daily Mirror dealt mostly with damages for Kate and Gerry McCann and their three children even down to the amounts claimed by each plaintiff (sadly I can't find the thing right now but surely someone on here has it?) because of the emotional pain and suffering the book had caused to them. I stand to be corrected but I do not see in this instance that libel and general damages are mutually dependent. That is, the Supreme Court may rule that the book was not libelous but a claim for general damages was permissible by virtue of Dr Amaral putting his interpretation on the evidence available?

TORN APART BY HIS LIES

Sunday Mirror

July 12, 2009

MADDIE PARENTS SUE COP FOR £1M BOOK PROFITS
 
By TOM WORDEN
 
Kate and Gerry McCann are suing the police chief who bungled the investigation into their daughter's disappearance - and blamed them for her death - for £1million.
 
In a 36-page writ handed to the Sunday Mirror, they lay bare in painful detail how Gonçalo Amaral's accusations left them "totally destroyed" and caused them "irreparable" damage.
 
It also gives a harrowing insight into the day-to-day life in the McCann household as they struggle to cope without Madeleine.
 
The writ - which the Sunday Mirror has had translated from Portuguese - outlines how the couple both suffer from "permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear". It also says Kate McCann is "steeped in a deep and serious depression".
 
Disgraced former police Amaral has pocketed £ 1million writing a lurid book and making a documentary full of cruel lies about Madeliene and her parents. And now they are suing him for every penny of it.
 
He accuses them of accidentally killing their three-year-old daughter and then covering up her death.
 
Amaral, who was thrown off case after five months, has repeatedly claimed Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on Algarve. In his book The Truth About The Lie he spouts his absurd theory that the couple hid their daughter's body.
 
The lawsuit also highlights their fears for four-year-old twins Sean and Amelie when they start school later this year and begin to hear rumours that Madeleine is dead.
 
And it accuses Amaral of being a self-obsessed, manipulative money-grabber with no morals.
 
The couple, both 41, have hired Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte to sue Amaral for defamation and for breaching their human rights. Mrs Duarte, 54, said: "Somebody has to stop him and shut him up. He is a rich man now, earning millions from the distress of this family. We believe he has made up to 1.2million euros (£1million) from the book and the video. We want the court to punish him by taking at least that much from him."
 
The McCanns have a good case for defamation as they have already been cleared by Portugal's Attorney General. The case will go to trial in Lisbon next summer and Amaral, 49, could force the McCanns to take the stand. Madeleine is named with Kate and Gerry and the twins as a complainant in the lawsuit, lodged on June 24.
 
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley, Leics, claim Amaral's repeated insistence that their daughter is dead has stopped people looking for her. The lawsuit states: "Madeleine has been deprived of the possibility of a fair and adequate investigation into her disappearance, putting her moral and physical integrity at serious risk."
 
It says Gerry and Kate have been "totally destroyed from a moral, social, ethical, emotional and family point of view, beyond the pain that the absence of their eldest daughter causes them".
 
The couple want a minimum of £430,000 in damages for Madeleine, which will be used to keep the search for her going. They also want a minimum of £215,000 each for them, and another £86,000 each for the twins. It is thought any money they get will go to the Maddie fund.
 
Amaral's book has sold around 330,000 copies worldwide. The father-of-three has become a celeb in Portugal, and has a new Jaguar.
 
The McCanns say his "sole objectives" in writing the book were "to earn a lot of money", using "lies".
 
It says the book and his 50-minute documentary, which has been shown twice on Portuguese TV, are "manipulative, perverse, false, destructive, defamatory, deeply damaging and therefore illegal".
 
Amaral was in charge of the 30 detectives looking for Madeleine after she vanished in May 2007 on a family holiday in Praia da Luz.
 
He was largely responsible for making the McCanns "arguidos" - suspects - four months after Madeleine vanished. But he was kicked off the case in October 2007 days after the Sunday Mirror revealed he was working as little as four hours a day and was enjoying long, boozy lunches.
 
He was removed from the case on his 48th birthday. Amaral took early retirement shortly afterwards, ending 27 years on the force.
 
He began writing his book, promoting it by travelling around Europe giving newspaper interviews.
 
It went on sale in a blaze of publicity in July last year - three days after the McCanns' "arguido" status was removed. Earlier this month Amaral was charged with torturing a witness during a separate missing child case. He faces jail if convicted.
 
WHAT THEY ARE DEMANDING
 
£430,000 damages for Madeleine which will be used to continue the search for her.
 
£215,000 for each parent for the emotional distress the book has caused them. They say they suffer 'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear'. The writ also says Kate McCann is 'steeped in a deep and serious depression'.
 
£86,000 for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, who could hear his allegations when they start school in September.
 
HOW HE MADE HIS MONEY
 
£500,000 from the book which has sold 180,000 copies in Portugal alone.
 
£430,000 from the extra 150,000 books which have been sold in Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland.
 
£100,000 for a TV documentary watched by one in five people in Portugal - 75,000 copies have sold on DVD.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 08:38:56 PM by Wonderfulspam »
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Offline Albertini

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #804 on: December 16, 2014, 08:35:26 PM »
You seem to be inexplicably confusing fact and opinion ...

I'm waiting for you to tell me why Isobel hasn't challenged the judgement using these falsehoods you've found.

Should I not hold My breath for an answer to that one?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #805 on: December 16, 2014, 08:37:08 PM »
TORN APART BY HIS LIES

Sunday Mirror

July 12, 2009

MADDIE PARENTS SUE COP FOR £1M BOOK PROFITS
 
By TOM WORDEN
 
Kate and Gerry McCann are suing the police chief who bungled the investigation into their daughter's disappearance - and blamed them for her death - for £1million.
 
In a 36-page writ handed to the Sunday Mirror, they lay bare in painful detail how Gonçalo Amaral's accusations left them "totally destroyed" and caused them "irreparable" damage.
 
It also gives a harrowing insight into the day-to-day life in the McCann household as they struggle to cope without Madeleine.
 
The writ - which the Sunday Mirror has had translated from Portuguese - outlines how the couple both suffer from "permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear". It also says Kate McCann is "steeped in a deep and serious depression".
 
Disgraced former police Amaral has pocketed £ 1million writing a lurid book and making a documentary full of cruel lies about Madeliene and her parents. And now they are suing him for every penny of it.
 
He accuses them of accidentally killing their three-year-old daughter and then covering up her death.
 
Amaral, who was thrown off case after five months, has repeatedly claimed Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on Algarve. In his book The Truth About The Lie he spouts his absurd theory that the couple hid their daughter's body.
 
The lawsuit also highlights their fears for four-year-old twins Sean and Amelie when they start school later this year and begin to hear rumours that Madeleine is dead.
 
And it accuses Amaral of being a self-obsessed, manipulative money-grabber with no morals.
 
The couple, both 41, have hired Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte to sue Amaral for defamation and for breaching their human rights. Mrs Duarte, 54, said: "Somebody has to stop him and shut him up. He is a rich man now, earning millions from the distress of this family. We believe he has made up to 1.2million euros (£1million) from the book and the video. We want the court to punish him by taking at least that much from him."
 
The McCanns have a good case for defamation as they have already been cleared by Portugal's Attorney General. The case will go to trial in Lisbon next summer and Amaral, 49, could force the McCanns to take the stand. Madeleine is named with Kate and Gerry and the twins as a complainant in the lawsuit, lodged on June 24.
 
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley, Leics, claim Amaral's repeated insistence that their daughter is dead has stopped people looking for her. The lawsuit states: "Madeleine has been deprived of the possibility of a fair and adequate investigation into her disappearance, putting her moral and physical integrity at serious risk."
 
It says Gerry and Kate have been "totally destroyed from a moral, social, ethical, emotional and family point of view, beyond the pain that the absence of their eldest daughter causes them".
 
The couple want a minimum of £430,000 in damages for Madeleine, which will be used to keep the search for her going. They also want a minimum of £215,000 each for them, and another £86,000 each for the twins. It is thought any money they get will go to the Maddie fund.
 
Amaral's book has sold around 330,000 copies worldwide. The father-of-three has become a celeb in Portugal, and has a new Jaguar.
 
The McCanns say his "sole objectives" in writing the book were "to earn a lot of money", using "lies".
 
It says the book and his 50-minute documentary, which has been shown twice on Portuguese TV, are "manipulative, perverse, false, destructive, defamatory, deeply damaging and therefore illegal".
 
Amaral was in charge of the 30 detectives looking for Madeleine after she vanished in May 2007 on a family holiday in Praia da Luz.
 
He was largely responsible for making the McCanns "arguidos" - suspects - four months after Madeleine vanished. But he was kicked off the case in October 2007 days after the Sunday Mirror revealed he was working as little as four hours a day and was enjoying long, boozy lunches.
 
He was removed from the case on his 48th birthday. Amaral took early retirement shortly afterwards, ending 27 years on the force.
 
He began writing his book, promoting it by travelling around Europe giving newspaper interviews.
 
It went on sale in a blaze of publicity in July last year - three days after the McCanns' "arguido" status was removed. Earlier this month Amaral was charged with torturing a witness during a separate missing child case. He faces jail if convicted.
 
WHAT THEY ARE DEMANDING
 
£430,000 damages for Madeleine which will be used to continue the search for her.
 
£215,000 for each parent for the emotional distress the book has caused them. They say they suffer 'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear'. The writ also says Kate McCann is 'steeped in a deep and serious depression'.
 
£86,000 for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, who could hear his allegations when they start school in September.
 
HOW HE MADE HIS MONEY
 
£500,000 from the book which has sold 180,000 copies in Portugal alone.
 
£430,000 from the extra 150,000 books which have been sold in Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland.
 
£100,000 for a TV documentary watched by one in five people in Portugal - 75,000 copies have sold on DVD.

That from the 'sardine munchers' paper.

Again highlighting the mccanns search for more cash.


Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #806 on: December 16, 2014, 08:40:55 PM »
TORN APART BY HIS LIES

Sunday Mirror

July 12, 2009

MADDIE PARENTS SUE COP FOR £1M BOOK PROFITS
 
By TOM WORDEN
 
Kate and Gerry McCann are suing the police chief who bungled the investigation into their daughter's disappearance - and blamed them for her death - for £1million.
 
In a 36-page writ handed to the Sunday Mirror, they lay bare in painful detail how Gonçalo Amaral's accusations left them "totally destroyed" and caused them "irreparable" damage.
 
It also gives a harrowing insight into the day-to-day life in the McCann household as they struggle to cope without Madeleine.
 
The writ - which the Sunday Mirror has had translated from Portuguese - outlines how the couple both suffer from "permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear". It also says Kate McCann is "steeped in a deep and serious depression".
 
Disgraced former police Amaral has pocketed £ 1million writing a lurid book and making a documentary full of cruel lies about Madeliene and her parents. And now they are suing him for every penny of it.
 
He accuses them of accidentally killing their three-year-old daughter and then covering up her death.
 
Amaral, who was thrown off case after five months, has repeatedly claimed Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on Algarve. In his book The Truth About The Lie he spouts his absurd theory that the couple hid their daughter's body.
 
The lawsuit also highlights their fears for four-year-old twins Sean and Amelie when they start school later this year and begin to hear rumours that Madeleine is dead.
 
And it accuses Amaral of being a self-obsessed, manipulative money-grabber with no morals.
 
The couple, both 41, have hired Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte to sue Amaral for defamation and for breaching their human rights. Mrs Duarte, 54, said: "Somebody has to stop him and shut him up. He is a rich man now, earning millions from the distress of this family. We believe he has made up to 1.2million euros (£1million) from the book and the video. We want the court to punish him by taking at least that much from him."
 
The McCanns have a good case for defamation as they have already been cleared by Portugal's Attorney General. The case will go to trial in Lisbon next summer and Amaral, 49, could force the McCanns to take the stand. Madeleine is named with Kate and Gerry and the twins as a complainant in the lawsuit, lodged on June 24.
 
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley, Leics, claim Amaral's repeated insistence that their daughter is dead has stopped people looking for her. The lawsuit states: "Madeleine has been deprived of the possibility of a fair and adequate investigation into her disappearance, putting her moral and physical integrity at serious risk."
 
It says Gerry and Kate have been "totally destroyed from a moral, social, ethical, emotional and family point of view, beyond the pain that the absence of their eldest daughter causes them".
 
The couple want a minimum of £430,000 in damages for Madeleine, which will be used to keep the search for her going. They also want a minimum of £215,000 each for them, and another £86,000 each for the twins. It is thought any money they get will go to the Maddie fund.
 
Amaral's book has sold around 330,000 copies worldwide. The father-of-three has become a celeb in Portugal, and has a new Jaguar.
 
The McCanns say his "sole objectives" in writing the book were "to earn a lot of money", using "lies".
 
It says the book and his 50-minute documentary, which has been shown twice on Portuguese TV, are "manipulative, perverse, false, destructive, defamatory, deeply damaging and therefore illegal".
 
Amaral was in charge of the 30 detectives looking for Madeleine after she vanished in May 2007 on a family holiday in Praia da Luz.
 
He was largely responsible for making the McCanns "arguidos" - suspects - four months after Madeleine vanished. But he was kicked off the case in October 2007 days after the Sunday Mirror revealed he was working as little as four hours a day and was enjoying long, boozy lunches.
 
He was removed from the case on his 48th birthday. Amaral took early retirement shortly afterwards, ending 27 years on the force.
 
He began writing his book, promoting it by travelling around Europe giving newspaper interviews.
 
It went on sale in a blaze of publicity in July last year - three days after the McCanns' "arguido" status was removed. Earlier this month Amaral was charged with torturing a witness during a separate missing child case. He faces jail if convicted.
 
WHAT THEY ARE DEMANDING
 
£430,000 damages for Madeleine which will be used to continue the search for her.
 
£215,000 for each parent for the emotional distress the book has caused them. They say they suffer 'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear'. The writ also says Kate McCann is 'steeped in a deep and serious depression'.
 
£86,000 for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, who could hear his allegations when they start school in September.
 
HOW HE MADE HIS MONEY
 
£500,000 from the book which has sold 180,000 copies in Portugal alone.
 
£430,000 from the extra 150,000 books which have been sold in Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland.
 
£100,000 for a TV documentary watched by one in five people in Portugal - 75,000 copies have sold on DVD.
lets hope they get every penny...they certainly deserve it.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #807 on: December 16, 2014, 08:41:40 PM »
HOW HE MADE HIS MONEY
 
£500,000 from the book which has sold 180,000 copies in Portugal alone.
 
£430,000 from the extra 150,000 books which have been sold in Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland.
 
£100,000 for a TV documentary watched by one in five people in Portugal - 75,000 copies have sold on DVD.


There is the quantifiable damage, for proven lies, distortions and falsehoods.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #808 on: December 16, 2014, 08:44:28 PM »
HOW HE MADE HIS MONEY
 
£500,000 from the book which has sold 180,000 copies in Portugal alone.
 
£430,000 from the extra 150,000 books which have been sold in Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland.
 
£100,000 for a TV documentary watched by one in five people in Portugal - 75,000 copies have sold on DVD.


There is the quantifiable damage, for proven lies, distortions and falsehoods.

What proven lies, distortions and falsehoods ?

Prove it ferryman,
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 09:04:39 PM by Eleanor »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #809 on: December 16, 2014, 08:55:58 PM »
"permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear".

Kate McCann is "steeped in a deep and serious depression".



I've already pointed out that Brenda Leyland (tragically) might have taken her own life.

She had clearly suffered damage pretty severe to take a step that extreme.

Had she lived, how would you have expected her to 'prove' it?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 09:03:44 PM by Angelo222 »