Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[Martina]

Butlins

Butlins listening service required the holidaymakers to lock the apartments/chalets where they left the children.

[stephen25000]

Butlins

Statistics on this ?

[Freya]

Statistics on this ?

Oh please, that's ridiculous, it was common place. You must know that surely?

[Freya]

Butlins listening service required the holidaymakers to lock the apartments/chalets where they left the children.

But that's not to say everyone did though. Same as you didnt expect mccanns to have left the door unlocked don't you think?

[Martina]

But that's not to say everyone did though. Same as you didnt expect mccanns to have left the door unlocked don't you think?

But you got no idea how many people actually left the door unlocked.

[stephen25000]

Oh please, that's ridiculous, it was common place. You must know that surely?

In unlocked accommodation?

You claimed it was a common practice, now do you have the figures ?

[Freya]

In unlocked accommodation?

You claimed it was a common practice, now do you have the figures ?

Actually if you look back to my initial statement it was in response to Martina saying "unattended"

[Freya]

But you got no idea how many people actually left the door unlocked.

You have no idea how many holidaymakers left their doors unlocked in PDL or other MW resorts either though.

[Martina]

You have no idea how many holidaymakers left their doors unlocked in PDL or other MW resorts either though.

It wasn't me who used the argument that it was a common practice. It was you, surprise, surprise.

[jassi]

I wonder if any of the other members of  tapas group left their doors unlocked, or was it only the ones who lost a child ?

[Freya]

It wasn't me who used the argument that it was a common practice. It was you, surprise, surprise.

It was common practice to leave kids unattended in Butlins as it was in San Ag and PDL. I saw ppl do it in MW resorts    and I don't think you would deny Butlins it was common place, So yes, it was common place as ive seen it with my own eyes. Does that clarify it for you.

[Martina]

I wonder if any of the other members of  tapas group left their doors unlocked, or was it only the ones who lost a child ?

Fiona Payne Rogatory:

1485
 'The French doors'.
 
 
 Reply
 'They were always locked and secured'.
 
 
 1485
 'And locked'.
 
 
 Reply
 'And the front door was always locked and secured'.
 
 
 1485





Jane Tanner rogatory:


Reply    “And the door, they couldn’t get out, we made sure they couldn’t, well from the point of Ella you know we made sure she couldn’t err not escape, because that sounds terrible, but you know she, the door was dead locked so she couldn’t have, she couldn’t have wandered off so I mean obviously there’s harm, you could say she could have done herself harm in the apartment anyway but from our own view of knowing Ella we thought you know she couldn’t, couldn’t come to any harm, and Evie was in her cot so couldn’t get out the cot, so.”
 
4078    “Yeah, that’s what her bed was. So Ella was in the bed and…”
Reply    “Ella was in her bed.”
 
4078    “And Evie was in the cot.”
Reply    “Evie was in the cot yeah.”
 
4078    “And what was, if you were to go in through the, well I know we’ve discussed this in the office and it’s difficult to say the front door or the back door of the apartment because there’s some confusion.”
Reply    “Yeah.”
 
4078    “If we were to say poolside and roadside, would that make it clearer as to what I was referring to?”
Reply    “Yeah, yeah.”
 
4078    “Which, which entrance did you use mostly?”
Reply    “For checking or for anything?”
 
4078    “For anything. Was there a check, that you’d use mostly?”
Reply    “Err the back, the roadside entrance because you couldn’t actually get in to the err the poolside entrance but there was no key to get in from the outside so you could only get in there if it was unlocked. It was sort of like a, you know like patio doors have a…”
 
4078    “Yeah.”
Reply    “Thing that goes up and down.”
 
4078    “Oh right.”
Reply    “So the only time we’d have probably used the back, the poolside entrance is during the day if somebody else was in there already.”
 
4078    “Okay, so when you went out for your meal…”
Reply    “Yeah.”
 
4078    “In the evening, the poolside door was always locked in your apartment.”
Reply    “Yeah, yeah.”
 


Rachael Oldfield rogatory:

1578 'But there were evenings during the holiday when both of you''
 Reply 'Yes'.
 
1578 'Were out''
 Reply 'Yeah'.
 
1578 'And Grace was in the apartment''
 Reply 'Yeah'.
 
1578 'And when Grace was in the apartment, would you leave any access insecure''
 Reply 'No, the patio doors were locked and the front door was double locked yeah'.
 

The answer for your question, Jassi, seems to be pretty clear.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I find the statements of the McCs too confusing-throwing red herrings in whenever they get the chance.

Risk assessment how safe were the children?
1. if all doors are locked the children can't 'go wandering' if they wake up during adult drinking times
2. they also can't get out if there is a fire-can fires start whilst people are sleeping ?
  PR would dictate don't say the children were locked in.

3. If a door was left unlocked children can go wandering if they wake up to look for parents if ey are distressed in anyway.
PR would dictate do not say the door was unlocked

So what has KATE offered with regards to Maddie being missing?
she has suggested an abductor came in and out of a window using a (jemmie)
both PR boxes are ticked in safe mode

this is discarded as a no started as there is no evidence of a window being jemmied.

Kate goes to another thesis; Someone from NW has a key and enters and leaves with a child.
ok but why mention jemmied shutters?

No need for a key, because it transpires one door was left unlocked-for checking the children
ok but why mention NW staff entering and leaving the apartment using a stolen key?

Kate claims she knew right away that Maddie did not wander- how did she know for sure?
was the apartment locked?
No The said the patio doors were not locked- so what else did Kate see that made her KNOW for sure that Maddie didn't wander out of that apartment?

MW played no part in the Missing childs fate: that is solely at the hands of the parents!

   
   

[VIXTE]

That doesn't alter the fact that Mark Warner and The Ocean Club had a duty to inform clients that the place wasn't safe from Burglars and Preditors, even if only in a cursory way.

Yes, they failed to worn their guests about the break ins and attacks on children.
Then Madeleine disappeared.
Then it took another 7 years for the world to learn about the break ins and attacks on children, and in the mean time the new attacks happened.

[slartibartfast]

As I've said before ... I would appreciate if you are editing or abbreviating my posts that you state it ... just a matter of courtesy.  To solve the problem, please don't do it at all.

Don't be silly.