Author Topic: Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.  (Read 125279 times)

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Offline pinkblossoms

Did the ocean club know that children were being left on their own ?

Offline faithlilly

Did the ocean club know that children were being left on their own ?

We are told by Kate there was a note in the reception ledger to that effect.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Do you think that warning about burglaries should have included specific advice, for example re the windows,  "Please ensure windows are locked before going out" ?

No... I've travelled a lot and its quite normal to be warned...theres been a spate of thefts..take care...type of things

Offline pinkblossoms

We are told by Kate there was a note in the reception ledger to that effect.

Is there anything in the files about it.

Offline faithlilly

Is there anything in the files about it.

Isn't Kate's word good enough now ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Stephen in black.  My responses in blue



Stephen:

Pay attention davel....................... ** TEACHER !


1.Mark Warner provided a free evening creche -

the McCanns chose not to use it. 

**Yes, but not practical,.  About 300 yards away with 3 kids between two of them to carry.  I haven't yet seen proof of any pushchair that one poster claims.  Lets have the proof if you maintain they had one at that early stage, cos it is my understanding that they didn't have one..



2.Mark Warner provided a babysitting service by fully qualified staff at a nominal fee -

 the McCann's chose not to use it

**As a mother, I would not risk any stranger alone with my kids in a place that was barred to casual callers nor had any trusted second person with the baby sitter. 
No guarentee, in any case, that any parents would get a nanny that the kids knew.  In fact no guarentee that they would get a nanny at all.

There were more families there than Nannies to go round.




3.Mark Warner provided a takeaway service from the tapas restaurant -

 the McCann's chose not to use it.

**They were like in their back garden.  Full view of 5A with lighting illuminating the patio window area and also only 50 metres away.  Even Amaral said that no-one would go in that way with the tapas group overlooking it and so close. 
They left the front door locked so that it needed a key to enter.  They believed the front of the apartment to be locked against any intruders.  No way would anyone expect an intruder to have the front door key. 

OC failed to tell them that there had been burglars enter the apartments in the same block in the previous few weeks




4.Mark warner provided self-catering accomodation for those preferring to stay home and cater for themselves -

the McCann's chose not to use it.

**The group chose not to want self catering, which was their perogative.  They were with a group of like minded friends and wanted a holiday similar to others taken with friends.   
However, they were under the misconception that this MW holiday site was run like others that had child listening services. 

They expressed concern when they learned OC did not, but the arrangements to go were made already




5.Mark Warner provided accommodation which had locks to all doors and windows -

 the McCann's chose to leave a door unlocked and never checked the windows.

***Are you sure?  Cos it seems unlikely that patio doors would be lockable from the outside.  None of the hotels that I have stayed at, have outside lockable patio doors ... and I have travelled extensively.

Proof please Stephen




6.Mark Warner did not provide a 'listening service' as they felt the layout of the resort made this an unsafe and unsuitable option -

 the McCann's not only decided to operate their own version, they also asked for a discount because of it.

***Is there anything wrong with asking for a discount?  My hubby isn't Scottish and he is always asking for discounts.  And anyway, is this a myth ? ... or fact?

The Mccanns version of listening was vastly superior to the listening services normally operated by hotels, which can be a bit hit and miss.  Theirs involved regular visual checking of the children.




7.The McCann's blamed Mark Warner for supposedly leaving a book containing their request for a table every night to facilitate the neglect of their children at a reception desk where it might be read by others -

yet freely informed complete strangers that they had left their children home alone while they were out dining.

** "to facilitate the neglect of their children " what nonsense Stephen, 
The sentence doesn't even make sense and both PT and UK authorities see no reason to accuse The Mccanns of any neglect.  Try and free yourself of this erronious and frankly rather pathetic fixation.

They told people they trusted.  I can only think of one apart from fellow dinners and that is Jez Wilkins.  How many others did they tell, Stephen?  Please name them and the source of your information.




8.The McCann supporters say Mark Warner should have warned them about attacks on other children -

 yet most of these attacks were not reported at the time and were not in PdL. Regardless, the McCanns had decided to operate their own, unsafe listening system before they even left the UK and without ascertaining whether the area was safe, or knowing the location of their accommodation.



***John is the main proponent of that.  Are you disagreeing with John?  Is he a Mccann supporter?

How weak and naive, Stephen.  Of course OC would know about some of them, at the very least.  In small places like that, the air would be full of it.  Everyone gossiping about it.  And they read the newspapers.  They chose not to prewarn people.  their decision and it was almost certainly about bookings and money

So you, Stephen,  expected The Mccanns to go out to PdL to check the area and the exact location before their actual holiday?  Get real Stephen, that is absolute nonsense.

Btw, anyone going out there would have thought it the safest place on earth.  It seemed it to me.

As stated before, the checking system The Mccanns and the Tapas group used was vastly superior to very successfull checking systems used in hotels and holiday camps all around the World.

Not only that but the Tapas Group had close eye view of the apartments, especially of the Mccann apartment which was well illuminated by the street lamp outside.  Most peeps using the hotel systems would not be anywhere near nor have eye view.

They were only about 50 metres away and were within hailing distance.  I know that from personal experience with my 50 metre+ garden and my children yelling.  No probs at all for lively youngsters.  Madeleine was no shrinking violet.   She would have easily made them hear, plastic windows or not.  The ends are open to that restaurant.

She could also see them from the balcony had she gone outside.



Sorry Stephen, but none of your ideas hold water, they fall apart under critical examination.  Seems more like a Mccann "boot- putting- in" exercise, rather than a thought out serious post. 

Such a lot of work wasted,  Try again



In the same vein as your opening sentence, which was "Pay attention davel"   

So, carrying on in teacher talk .



[ moderated ]

Offline faithlilly


Welcome back sadie. I have missed your own particular brand of nonsense   ?{)(**
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 02:27:40 PM by John »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline pegasus

.. I haven't yet seen proof of any pushchair ...
(2nd May) "We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner". (Source: The book "Madeleine").

... The group chose not to want self catering ...
All  4 apartments had kitchens

... asking for a discount ...
After booking, a 10% discount was requested, and a retrospective discount was given, I already posted proof.

...listening was vastly superior to the listening services normally operated by hotels, which can be a bit hit and miss...
The professional MW listening service was superior, with checking interval of 15 minutes, as proven by statements.

... would have easily made them hear ...
Safety sticker on lounge sliding door cautioned guests to never allow child on balcony unsupervised.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 04:35:48 AM by pegasus »

stephen25000

  • Guest
It is truly time sadie, you spent time in the real world, rather than defending the indefensible.

The mccanns had no excuses for what they did.

They were in a country they did not know, and with little if any knowledge of the language or customs.

The mere fact that you continue with your tirades in support of the mccanns reinforces your inability to  see  and analyse simple facts.

It was not the job of Mark Warner to look after the children, it was the MCCANNS.

As to your defense of davel, you and him have a great deal in common. 8(0(*
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 02:49:05 PM by John »

Offline pegasus

...They were only about 50 metres away and were within hailing distance. ...  She would have easily made them hear ... She could also see them from the balcony had she gone outside.
Yes I agree the child could have yelled from the balcony and possibly be heard at the tapas table.
Yes I agree the tapas table can be seen from the balcony, by a person of adult height (I think a small child would not be able to see however this is easily solved for example by simply standing on a plastic chair)

But your suggestions would be in direct contravention of this very clear safety sticker
(Photo is of a nearby apartment, exact same sticker was in 5A, definitely)

(Photo by Jeanne D'Arc)

You seem to be stating that the child could easily have gone onto the balcony to see and shout at the tapas table?
The sticker says "Supervise your children at all times when on the balcony"
From what distance would this important supervision have been in your scenario?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 05:22:57 PM by pegasus »

Offline jassi

Yes I agree the child could have yelled from the balcony and possibly be heard at the tapas table.
Yes I agree the tapas table can be seen from the balcony, by a person of adult height (I think a small child would not be able to see however this is easily solved for example by simply standing on a plastic chair)

But your suggestions would be in direct contravention of this very clear safety sticker
(Photo is of a nearby apartment, exact same sticker was in 5A, definitely)

(Photo by Jeanne D'Arc)

You seem to be stating that the child could have gone onto the balcony to see, and to shout at, the tapas table?

The sticker says "Supervise your children at all times when on the balcony"


Which I imagine would include ensuring that they could not access the balcony when not supervised.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

Which I imagine would include ensuring that they could not access the balcony when not supervised.
Yes

Offline Mr Gray


Which I imagine would include ensuring that they could not access the balcony when not supervised.

I doubt maddie could open the sliding patio door

Offline jassi

I doubt maddie could open the sliding patio door

Nor would I, though others have claimed that it is quite easy.

However (hypothetically) Madeleine could have run out onto the balcony through an open door while, for example, Kate was taking a shower.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Mr Gray

Nor would I, though others have claimed that it is quite easy.

However (hypothetically) Madeleine could have run out onto the balcony through an open door while, for example, Kate was taking a shower.

good to agree on something...in similar apartments I have stayed in the doors have been quite heavy