Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[slartibartfast]

They were told to keep it quiet

So you are suggesting a conspiracy?

[Brietta]

Are you suggesting that MW were aware of spare keys in the hands of criminals and did nothing about it?

Dr Amaral was at pains to emphasise there was only one key to the front door of apartment 5a.

[sadie]

I know you are right. No way was it that far away as shown in the photograph. I could hear the kids shouting over to their parents in who were in the pool a few apartments up from 5a....and looking at this photo there is no way you could hear....the wide angle lens makes it look a hell of a lot further.

I am glad you have been there Freya.  It hasn't been much fun having the other side intimating that I am lying.

I was just amazed how compact the tapas garden and area generally was.  It all seemed very cosy.  A funny expression to use about a garden, but that was the overall feeling that I got.  Brilliantly laid out , I guess by part owner Robin Crossland who is a qualified architect.

Robin Crosland + David Symington + (?) John Garveigh were joint owners of OC.
According to Blackwatch of the Sargeants blog, Symington and Garveigh shot off on a Carribean yachting holiday so avoiding the aftermath.  They stayed out of contact for yonks and I believe were never interviewed.

So much for their Duty of Care ! 


And why were they never asked for their statements ?

Robin Crosland had to field all the questions

[sadie]

Dr Amaral was at pains to emphasise there was only one key to the front door of apartment 5a.

That is absolute rubbish.  No hotel/Appartment complex of the size and quality of OC would manage on one key. 

We are unusually well travelled both on business and privately.  Hotels we stay at invariably give us a second key if we ask for one... and we do

Also a couple reported in their statement that when they stayed in that apartment, they were upset cos the maids used to just come in at any old time via the locked front door ... and even thru the double locked door.
So how did that happen, if there was only one key


Is Amaral saying that the cleaners had a key, but the guests did not?  Or what ?

And how about maintenance work?.  Of course there were spare keys.

[slartibartfast]

I am glad you have been there Freya.  It hasn't been much fun having the other side intimating that I am lying.

I was just amazed how compact the tapas garden and area generally was.  It all seemed very cosy.  A funny expression to use about a garden, but that was the overall feeling that I got.  Brilliantly laid out , I guess by part owner Robin Crossland who is a qualified architect.

Robin Crosland + David Symington + (?) John Garveigh were joint owners of OC.
According to Blackwatch of the Sargeants blog, Symington and Garveigh shot off on a Carribean yachting holiday so avoiding the aftermath.  They stayed out of contact for yonks and I believe were never interviewed.

So much for their Duty of Care ! 


And why were they never asked for their statements ?

Robin Crosland had to field all the questions

I thought John Hill was the manager...

JOHN HILL (Manager of the Mark Warner Ocean Club)
the manager at the Mark Warner resort, John Hill, said there was no definite physical evidence that the girl had been abducted. "It's still questionable as to whether it's an abduction," he said. "We are hoping that Madeline is found as soon as possible and safe and well." Mr Hill said the police had been doing all they could. He said around 60 staff and guests at the complex had searched until 4.30am while police notified border police, Spanish police and airports. "There is a criminal investigator here in charge of the situation and around 20 officers but unfortunately there is still no information,"

...just found another reference and it seems both had management roles.

P.S. Are you Judith Chalmers?

[sadie]

I thought John Hill was the manager...

...just found another reference and it seems both had management roles.

P.S. Are you Judith Chalmers?

No

But yep, John Hill was the manager.  According to Blackwatch, Crosland was part owner. 

[pegasus]

...We are unusually well travelled both on business and privately.  Hotels we stay at invariably give us a second key if we ask for one... and we do...

An alternative is, during the day, to leave the key outside the front door, hidden under the door mat?

ETA Sources: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html & http://www.mccannfiles.com/id252.html
"... we did occasionally ... during the daytime, leave the key under the mat ..."
" ... during the daytime ... we left the key under the ... mat ..."

[sadie]

An alternative is, during the day, to leave the key outside the front door, hidden under the door mat?

ETA Sources: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html & http://www.mccannfiles.com/id252.html
"... we did occasionally ... during the daytime, leave the key under the mat ..."
" ... during the daytime ... we left the key under the ... mat ..."

Perhaps they didn't ask for a second key?  Perhaps as young people they didn't realise that they are usually available?

We rarely fail to get a second key


Pegasus in your anxiety to protect Amaral and indite the Mccanns you are forgetting the couple who stayed in that apartment and were troubled by the cleaners walking into a double locked room.

They had a key quite obviously.

And are you suggesting that there were no spare keys available?  What is someone staying there left with the only key?   Happened to us this last holiday.  WE sent it back but are you suggesting that the hotel would have managed with one room locked off, unavailble?

One new couple arriving to be told  "Sorry but no key, the last guests took it away, so you cant stay here ..... tough"

And the men who came to repair the Mccanns, [was it?] bedroom patio door.  How would they get in?



Pegasus,  you are not a dumbo, you have proved that.  So hows about putting your thinking cap on and resisting such silly statements as only one key

We KNOW you want to support Amaral

BUT REALLY !!!!!




Amaral is a fool if he thinks any experienced travellers would believe the story about only one key

[pegasus]

... the story about only one key

One key per apartment was provided to guests.
That's why the guests at 5H that week during the daytimes occasionally left the key under the door-mat.

[Mr Moderator]

The McCanns apartment was privately owned  so I would assume there probably was two keys in the possession of OC, one for staff and one for guests.

[Miss Taken Identity]

The 'abductor/s didn't need a key  the door was unlocked according to Kate n Gerry- well that was established after the 'shutters and whooshing' story was thrown out, and the- 'was it -was it not locked story was finally established. I said FINALLY as there was a lot rethinking going on with that regard.

Also were the gypsies, paedophile gangs, burglars, child stealers not 'watching' them for days? according to Team McCann.

[Wonderfulspam]

The 'abductor/s didn't need a key  the door was unlocked according to Kate n Gerry- well that was established after the 'shutters and whooshing' story was thrown out, and the- 'was it -was it not locked story was finally established. I said FINALLY as there was a lot rethinking going on with that regard.

Also were the gypsies, paedophile gangs, burglars, child stealers not 'watching' them for days? according to Team McCann.

Psychic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JaRObcLsds

[sadie]

The McCanns apartment was privately owned  so I would assume there probably was two keys in the possession of OC, one for staff and one for guests.

At the very minimum there would have to be at least three

One for the guests
One for the staff
A spare in case a key is lost or taken home


This is not a little apartment in someones home and it would be run professionally.  Realistically there had to be at least 5 keys because

i)  It is normal to give a second key out to guests if requested.
ii)  They would need two keys for staff.  Cant have the plumber having to waste time [and money] running around after the key from cleaners who are off having coffee.


Amaral made the ONLY ONE key up
....... or being kind to him, he was misinformed, or misunderstood.

[Lace]

The 'abductor/s didn't need a key  the door was unlocked according to Kate n Gerry- well that was established after the 'shutters and whooshing' story was thrown out, and the- 'was it -was it not locked story was finally established. I said FINALLY as there was a lot rethinking going on with that regard.

Also were the gypsies, paedophile gangs, burglars, child stealers not 'watching' them for days? according to Team McCann.

You are actually wrong there.

In Kate McCanns first statement on the 4th of May she says she went in through the patio doors which were unlocked.  The shutters and 'whooshing' story as you call it was not thrown out.

I believe the McCann's said they believe they could have been observed for days.   This is very likely.   Don't know why you have the attitude that it was not possible.

Have you ever wondered that due to the McCann's being observed over a couple of days, knowing the McCann's were using that entrance to check on the children,    entering through the patio doors could have been too risky?     They used a key to open the front door instead?   This door was shrouded in darkness,  and so they would be less likely to be caught.

[Miss Taken Identity]

If they were really clever 'abductors' and they must be because the whole world and its cousin have been l@@king for little Maddie for 7 years!, then they would have noticed that:

1. The children often woke up crying during the night.
2. The parents have evidenced that their 'check' AND home made baby listening service' was sparce, if at all.
3. The patio door was unlocked!

So now we have at least 2 McCann 'theories' to fit someone up
a.enter and leave by a window with a child- dead or alive?
b. being watched and a key being used- which knocks out the window thingy

Does this apartment have a chimney?

It is worth remembering that the McCanns have a reputation to protect so they claim:
*there is NO WAY Maddie could have left the apartment on her own that night-she must have been 'snatched'

*and the fact that they left the children alone in an UNLOCKED apartment- and one went missing.. wow! cute eh?

I saw through these two way back on  the first interview!